CECI HEINEN: Hello everyone! This is Ceci Heinen with the Minnesota Daily and you are listening to In The Know, a podcast dedicated to the University of Minnesota. Spring is over and summer has arrived. Things are finally slowing down for students as we take a few months off of the grind of university. 

However, there is one very important man who does not have the summer off and has recently stepped into one of the most revered and influential roles in history. Can you guess who I am referring to? Why the pope of course! 

Many of you may be wondering, as I was during the past month, why is the pope so important? Why did every international media outlet stop their regular scheduled programming to report on the white smoke at the Sistine Chapel and TikTok is blowing up with news about the announcement of Pope Leo XIV ?

To be clear before I get into the meat of the episode, this is not a commentary on the Catholic Church in any way. It is simply an exploration of why the pope has such an impact and why his position has persisted for over 2,000 years. 

But let’s start with some definitions: the pope is the leader of the Catholic Church which has a rough population of 1.4 billion humans and 64.4 million Americans. He is the head of the Vatican City State which is its own country within Italy and he has commanded the attention of the world for the past month. 

Pope Francis passed away on April 21 after 12 years as head of the Catholic Church. His death set into motion the uber-traditional process of the conclave, or the choosing of the new pope. I have said it before and I will say it again, I have never experienced more fear of missing out, FOMO, than I did during the conclave. 

I would give anything to be in there just watching the drama go down. Although I know it’s definitely less dramatic than Ralph Fiennes  makes it seem in Conclave the movie. The true conclave began on May 7 and wrapped up in just two days. On May 8, Fr. Robert Francis Prevost was elected as the 267th pope. At his announcement at St. Peter’s Basilica, he chose the name Pope Leo XIV. 

To make sense of all the hubbub, I spoke to some important figures of the Catholic Church in Minneapolis and St. Paul to find some answers. Johan van Parys, native of Belgium and current director of liturgy and the sacred arts at the Basilica of Saint Mary explained what the Pope means to Catholics and the vital role he plays to the church.

JOHAN VAN PARYS: There’s many different aspects to his role, but he is the supreme pastor. So in terms of the theology of the church, he really has the last word in terms of what we believe in. But he also has the role of being a builder of bridges, the word pontifex which is the Latin version of pope, “pontis” is bridge. And so the pontifex is the builder of bridges. 

There are many different opinions and there’s many different expectations. He’s charged with keeping unity within the church. Unity doesn’t mean uniformity. Unity means that, you know, all of us play our own instrument, but the pope is sort of the director of the orchestra and he makes sure that everybody plays in harmony. We don’t all have to play the flute, we all play different instruments, but we need to play in harmony. And that’s sort of the role of the pope. 

HEINEN: So just think of the Catholic Church as one giant orchestra and the pope being charged with conducting them all from Vatican City. Directing 1.4 billion Catholics is no small feat. And on top of that, he also has a unique position within international politics. 

Fr. Christopher Collins, vice president for mission at the University of St. Thomas, describes the political position of the pope.

CHRISTOPHER COLLINS: He’s such a well-known figure both as a religious leader as a person involved in international politics, invariably ’cause the Vatican City state as its own sovereign tiny little nation. So there’s a unique role that the Vatican plays in diplomacy and, and relations between nations around the world, especially where there’s conflict.

So, because he is such a visible religious figure and also a moral voice in the world that is unique. And that has a unique platform. And I think that’s all those reasons are why there was so much attention on both the death of Pope Francis and then also the election of Pope Leo.

HEINEN: Collins also pointed out how the introduction of a new pope attracts unique attention from those outside of the Catholic church. 

COLLINS: It’s kind of curious how, it just captures the imagination of so many people, including maybe especially non-Catholics, in some ways. And obviously it’s so rooted in ancient tradition, and medieval in a lot of ways, or at least the visuals of things. 

And so that’s kind of neat in a contemporary culture like, kind of a digital culture. It’s a very material kind of reality. The pope and St. Peter’s and the vestments and all the rituals and so on. I think that kind of captures people’s imagination in a unique way too.

HEINEN: Pope Leo’s election was met with massive attention from social media with thousands of views and likes on posts and edits about him. Caitlin Magaña, an incoming third-year biology and pre-med student and life-long Catholic, spoke about how the visual aspects of the papacy announcement sparked some amusing online trends. 

CAITLIN MAGAÑA: Oh, I think it was definitely more visual. What the Catholics like jokes about, it just feels like a gender reveal from God that like, “Oh we have a new pope.”

HEINEN: At least Pope Leo’s announcement didn’t result in a wildfire like some of the backfiring gender reveals have. Every aspect of the announcement was analyzed online and within Catholic circles including what Pope Leo decided to wear. I spoke with the Auxiliary Archbishop of Minneapolis and St. Paul Kevin Kenney on the meanings of papal fashion. 

Quick breakdown of catholic hierarchy. Listen closely.  Archbishop Bernard Hebda is the representative of the Catholic Church for Minneapolis and St. Paul, auxiliary archbishop Kenney and Auxiliary Archbishop Michael Izen are archbishop Hebda’s helpers, they complete whatever he does not have time for. The three of them answer to the Papal Nuncio, Cardinal Christophe Pierre, who is the representative for the pope in the United States. 

I know a lot to take in, I hope I broke it down well enough. But anyways, auxiliary archbishop Kenney described the symbolism of the papal wardrobe and what Pope Leo’s stylistic choices may indicate. 

KEVIN KENNEY: Even just his presence on the balcony, when he came out after he was named, Pope Francis would not wear the traditional pope gear. He wore the white cloak, but Leo put it on that red kind of cape or whatever as well. But what that said was, and what his words were, “Peace be with you.” 

And so he desires a peace, he desires a unity. So by putting that on was saying, “Okay, you know, I believe that we’re all together.” The conservative, progressive. He wants to work with us and bring us together in a unity, not to change, but to respect the differences that exist, but to still say we can work together.

HEINEN: Would you have guessed that papal fashion is so telling of what a pope will bring to the church? Another factor that was heavily analyzed during his first speech was his choice of language. He addressed the crowd in Italian first, then Spanish, then English. Van Parys looks deeper into the thought that went into that decision. 

VAN PARYS: Well, at the moment that he did it, I thought it’s very smart on his part to not speak English. You know, there had, although he was on my list, but he was not on the top of my list. Because of the fact that he’s American. He’s American born, but when you think of him, he’s probably the least American of all the American cardinals. 

And I think by not speaking in English, he underlined the fact that he is not just an American. Now he is a missionary in Peru for so many years. He was a bishop in Peru. So I thought it was a good choice on his part. 

HEINEN: Pope Leo grew up in Chicago and has been previously seen in attendance of many a White Sox game, proving his continual love for the city. An American at the helm of the Catholic church was thought to be a pipe dream until now. According to auxiliary archbishop Kenney this was due to the fear of giving the United States too much power. 

KENNEY: The United States is seen as a world power and if the, then the head of the Catholic Church was from the United States, the fear always was that then we take over the world. That the power that the United States carries and then with the influence of the pope that it might affect things of the world. But, you know, I don’t think with Pope Leo it will, because one, Pope Leo is a great bridge. 

He spent 30 years in Peru, and he’s also a Peruvian citizen. He brings a lot of experience. And so it’s not like somebody who has just had the experience within the U.S. would come into that power of the head of the Catholic Church and then begin to to move things.

HEINEN: Although he was born in America it is clear that Pope Leo has a unique global perspective due to his time in Peru. Magaña, a native of Belize, has similar ancestry to him that she said her family was very excited about.

MAGAÑA: Honestly, I thought it was cool for the Americans. But honestly, when you look through his heritage, he’s part Creole and that’s predominantly what Belize is. We were very excited because we thought that was pretty cool that we kind of share, you know, similar heritage.

HEINEN: His nationality has not changed much in terms of the ancient traditions of the papacy however. Sacred objects add to the grandeur and overall pomp and circumstance of the welcoming of a new pope. Pope Leo was given two symbolic objects during his inaugural mass on May 18: the fisherman’s ring and the pallium. 

The fisherman’s ring’s history dates back to the first century when Peter, one of Jesus’s twelve disciples, was named the first pope. 

VAN PARYS: So the fisherman’s ring is very important because it refers to Peter who was a fisherman and all the popes are successors of Peter. Not anymore, but it used to be the case that all the papal documents, which were issued in the name of a certain pope, had the seal of that ring on the documents in wax. That’s also why it was important that as soon as the Pope died, that ring would be destroyed. 

HEINEN: Van Parys told me of an obscure practice that used to take place after the death of the Pope. This tradition involved tapping the Pope on the head with a hammer to determine whether he was still alive. I know, very strange. 

VAN PARYS: So there was actually a special hammer called the “hammer for the verification of the death of a pope.” It was used interestingly enough, when one thought that the pope had passed away. The flat side of the hammer would be used to tap the pope gently on the forehead and say, “Holy Father, are you alive?”

And they would do it three times. And if there was no reaction from the pope they would declare him deceased. Then they would remove the fisherman’s ring from the pope’s hand and with the sharp side of the hammer, destroy the ring. You may have seen, although they no longer issue documents with a ring, even the ring of Pope Francis was destroyed, ceremoniously after he passed away.

HEINEN: This ritual, like many others, is no longer practiced. They do not use “the hammer for the verification of the death of the pope” anymore. But the fisherman’s ring still gets destroyed immediately after the pope’s death, and the new pope is then given a new ring with his chosen name inscribed on it. 

Another ancient item that is given to every pope is the pallium, a sacred garment. And I am going to add a personal plug here, the wool for the pallium is woven by the Benedictine nuns of Santa Cecilia in Trastevere. If you guys could not gather, my full name is Cecilia. So, I have a personal connection to crafting the pallium for the pope, obviously, the secret is out!

VAN PARYS: The lambs are blessed and there’s a whole ceremony around them, but now they symbolize the relationship between the pope and all the archbishops throughout the world. So when an archbishop is blessed on the 29 of June, in Rome at the Feast of Saint Peter and Paul, the pallium is given to the archbishop by the papal nuncio. 

Of note is with Pope Leo XIV. The pallium of a pope looks different than the palliums given to all the archbishop. Pope Leo XIV was given the same pallium that all the archbishops have. So I don’t know what the meaning of that is, but it was of note.

HEINEN: Pope Leo’s pallium looking the same as the archbishops could be an indicator of where he would like the Catholic Church to go during his papacy. A common prediction for Pope Leo throughout all of my interviews was the word unity. 

This unity that Pope Leo is promising is not only within the Catholic Church between the more conservative and progressive followers, but it is also thought to be a push for further unity between the Catholic Church and other religions. 

Van Parys explained the history of the Catholic Church’s relationships with other religions. He tied the idea of interfaith unity back to the Second Vatican Council which occurred between 1962 and 1965 by Popes John XXIII and Paul VI. This council was vital to the opening up of the Catholic Church to other religions and to strengthening Catholicism’s relationship with Judaism. 

VAN PARYS: At that council, the church really opened. Now up until then, the Catholic church really didn’t interact with any other Christian denominations, didn’t interact with any other faiths. But from that moment on, the Catholic Church started to seek dialogue with other Christian denominations and with other religions, principally Judaism and Islam, the monotheistic religions, but also with other religions. 

And there were some very important documents that were issued by the Second Vatican Council about our relationship with Judaism. The document Nostra Aetate “In Our Time,” states that the Jewish people are our ancestors in the faith. 

Then there’s a document that talks about our relationship with all religions, where we recognize that all religions seek God and that most religions have very similar values. And therefore we need to seek dialogue. And the successive popes after the second Vatican Council have really committed themselves to greater dialogue. 

HEINEN: Van Parys also spoke about how Pope Francis worked to unite Roman Catholicism with Islam. He aligned himself with the Second Vatican Council especially by signing the Document on Human Fraternity for World Peace and Living Together in 2019 with the grand imam of Al-Azhar, Ahmed al-Tayeb, in the United Arab Emirates. 

VAN PARYS: Pope Francis worked very hard on building relationships, with other Christian denominations, but also with Islam. I mean, he signed this document on collaboration with Islam, which is, really very, very important. 

I suspect that Pope Leo, from what I’ve seen in the past two weeks of his papacy, is he talks a lot about unity. Unity within the Catholic Church, but also unity between different religions and really unity among all peoples.

HEINEN: Pope Leo has indicated in multiple ways that he will move along a similar path as Pope Franics. Since religion is a constant point of conflict globally, sometimes even leading to violence, a leader that has the power to foster religious tolerance is incredibly important. This is an area where the pope can touch the lives of people outside the Catholic Church. 

All of this is on a very large global scale, so how does the pope affect our local community? How does he affect non-Catholics in the Twin Cities? Auxiliary Archbishop Kenney says that in his interfaith community in Minneapolis, respect for the pope runs deep within many religions. 

KENNEY: I belong to an interfaith downtown clergy group. We have, you know, a Jewish rabbi, Imans, Protestant, Catholic, and I mean, they were all just very excited about Pope Leo as well. But we’ve had talks about Pope Francis, we’ve had talks about Saint John Paul II and Benedict.

And so they do listen and they take his word. You know, they may not follow it to the T but they, they see because the Catholic Church is one of the largest churches in the world, and so it would influence them in their lives as well. 

HEINEN: Magaña told me that the person who was most excited about the pope in her life was actually a protestant! 

MAGAÑA: I have a friend, he was more excited about the new pope than me. He was like, “Oh my gosh, there’s a new pope,” and he’s protestant. I’m like, wow. I just love it when Protestants are more excited than Catholics. Everyone was just like, have you seen the new Pope?

HEINEN: Collins had a similar recount of the day Pope Leo was appointed. St. Thomas, being a Catholic university, has a seminarian program where students can study theology and prepare to join Christian ministry. So as you would expect, these students were very excited about Pope Leo. 

COLLINS: I found out all the stuff that blew up on campus. Seminarians dressing up like the pope and secret service agents. I guess it was like a frenzy on campus. But I think it caught the attention of a lot of people. 

I was talking to a Muslim student later in the day and she was all excited to kind of be on, to kind of feel like she’s on the inside at a Catholic university as a pope is elected. It caught the imagination, I think, of a lot of different people including of different faith traditions too, which is cool.

HEINEN: For many of us students, sometimes religion and faith can seem like a whole different world that is very intimidating to dip your toe into. But churches reach outside their places of worship into communities. Collins explained a core belief of the Catholic Church, catholic social teaching, and how it originated from Pope Leo XIII. His description helps define the heart of the catholic ideal and how Pope Leo XIV will uplift it. 

COLLINS: What, what’s come to be called this Catholic social teaching tradition really goes back to the late 19th century, 1891 specifically. There was, back then it was Pope Leo XIII, he wrote what’s called an encyclical. A letter circulated around the world, not just to Catholics, but to people of goodwill, addressing big social challenges. 

And at that time, it was really about industrialization and urbanization. You know, the economy shifting from agrarian to industrial into urban settings, massive amounts of people working in factories and also huge amounts of wealth being generated for some, and in many ways a dehumanization of the workers, in the midst of it. 

I think one of the interesting things about the catholic social teaching tradition that starts with that encyclical was called Rerum Novarum, “Of the New Things.” So it’s discussing of the new things that are happening, like industry and economy and so on. But it’s largely grounded not in biblical teaching. Because it’s pitched to a broader audience than just the Catholic Church. 

So it’s really grounded in philosophical principles, by and large, an attempt to have a coherent set of principles, philosophical categories about how to structure society justly. And then ever since then, every pope has made new contributions to that body of teaching.

HEINEN: So the ideal of catholic social teaching all began with the Industrial Revolution. And new popes can continue to add to the encyclicals and pitch broad messages about the new evolutions of society and how their faith is intertwined with them. Most recently, Pope Francis wrote an encyclical called Laudato Si’ regarding the environment. 

COLLINS: The encyclical on the environment and, care for our common home as he put it. So that was a more pressing, more recent need that emerged. And so he did the same kind of thing, for example. There are other encyclicals on peace and, confronting nuclear weaponization and poverty and migration.

And mostly it’s about speaking up for the vulnerable, one way or the other. And, but, but doing it in such a way that’s accessible to all people of goodwill that’s based on large, mostly based on reason, not just faith. Faith certainly deepens it, but it’s reasonable proposals to the world about how to set up a just society. 

HEINEN: Collins described catholic social teaching in the context of America and how the ideals of the church should not be taken as either democratic or republican, and rather be thought of as moderate and central in society. 

COLLINS: The other thing is, especially for our American context, the set of teachings do not neatly fit into a Democratic platform or a Republican platform. There’s stuff to make people uneasy on both sides of the political spectrum. The sanctity of every human life, the dignity of labor, the rights of workers. It kind of tries to situate itself in a sense between the extremes of socialism and capitalism.

And they don’t just come up with nice, easy answers to any of the big social problems either. But it gives at least an intellectual framework and a philosophical framework to things to keep at the forefront. No matter what the issues are, the most important thing is the dignity of the human person. 

And so you always want to try to highlight the sanctity and dignity of every human person. No matter what their economic background is or their religious background, whether they’re physically well or rich or poor, or, you know, every human person has that dignity. 

HEINEN: So how does the catholic social teaching relate to non-Catholics? Why should an atheist for example care about what catholic social teaching is and how it could affect their lives? 

COLLINS: Well, for better or worse, or rightly or wrongly, the pope just has a unique global platform, you know. And so, why not use it well or try to use it well. And because he’s got a voice like no other voice in some ways, and it’s soft power as, as we say in the kind of the political realm. It is a kind of power or it catches people’s attention. 

So a commitment of faith is that we care for the vulnerable. Jesus lays that out. That’s like the condition for salvation actually. He says, did you visit the sick? Did you care for the homeless? Did you give shelter? Did you give food to the hungry? And so on. And he says, if you did that, then that’s, those are kinda the qualifications for eternal life. 

We have special extra attention to those who have no voice, who are being ignored or oppressed or abused and so on. So that’s a gospel kind of commandment. And so, because the pope has this global platform, he can also translate that proposal at least.

He can’t command anybody to do anything, but he can propose at least that we really need to be keeping the poor and the vulnerable and the marginalized at the center of our economic and political activity too. So it comes out of the faith, but it also can capture the attention of people outside of the church or people of no faith at all, but who could still be inspired by that message, I think.

HEINEN: It is always valuable to understand and know as much as you can about others to expand your horizons and increase empathy. Knowledge of the core beliefs of the Catholic Church which contains 17.7% of all people on earth is vital to just living a more open-minded life, along with knowledge of all other religions. 

While caring for the marginalized and working towards a just society is clearly relevant for our times, other aspects of the Catholic Church may seem outdated, or stuck in the past. Many aspects of modern life are beginning to intertwine with the catholic faith, and it is being pushed to adapt to modernity. One of which is the growth of AI. Collins talked about how Pope Leo might address the growth of AI and the threat it poses to human dignity. 

COLLINS: He said, we are now in the age of a new industrial revolution, which is artificial intelligence, and in a whole new way, but in a very similar way, there’s great possibility that’s gonna come with AI  and there’s great risk to the dignity of the human person in the midst of it. So in a different setting, it’s kind of the same problem or same risk that we are facing. 

And we have to think through and collaborate and work together to make sure that the dignity of the human person is, is preserved because it could very easily get really wiped out. Or very much, damaged or demeaned and, and left out in all kinds of different ways. And so that’s a, that’s an important thing to pay attention to is what the church is gonna try to do t o engage that question of, of AI and how do you keep, you don’t try to like, make it go away.

We bring a group of faculty to Rome every year for some visits at the Vatican, and one of the bishops that we meet with there has for years been engaging. Actually they came to him like executives of Google, Amazon, Meta, all these, you know, high major tech companies are asking for meetings at the Vatican to talk through stuff like this. 

Who is the human person anyway now in light of AI and, and how do you even think about who the human person is given the fact that there is artificial intelligence? And then what are the risks? What are the ethical things that we need to be thinking about? So that’s interesting. 

HEINEN: It will be interesting to see if Pope Leo comes out with another encyclical on how the Catholic Church will address AI. A common criticism of the Catholic Church that Pope Leo has begun to address is the role of women. 

I asked Magaña how she feels about women’s place in the Catholic Church and if she has anyone to look up to or any room to advance and grow as a young catholic woman. 

MAGAÑA: I do look up to both male and female. Some of my friends who are Catholics, one is a woman. She does lead, with her boyfriend, some youth groups. So young Catholics and you know young adults. And those are people I look up to. 

I also look up to the priest. You know, they’re not misogynists. They’re all for, you know, the women helping out in the church. I do have a lot of place to grow and I’m reaching out to a few women specifically, like specifically that gender, to grow into the church.

A lot of them will be elderly, but that’s completely fine. But I am being mentored by a woman of the Catholic Church and she will help me grow into my faith. And the Catholic Church does have leadership positions for women, like to help out with the youth group to assist the priest and stuff. And so the women are very involved in the church.

HEINEN: Magaña feels like although women may not hold the highest levels of leadership within the church, their role is still vital and she is eager to grow into her place in her church. 

Nonetheless, there is some progress being made at the Vatican level regarding women in leadership. Auxiliary archbishop Kenney said that movement on this front began with Pope Francis. 

KENNEY: Pope Francis started appointing women in different roles in the Vatican which had never happened before. So you know, the church takes forever to change anything. But I think the role of women is very important. It seems like we’ve done a little backsliding on that in the way of parish life and, you know, where the church has tended to swing backwards a little bit today. 

Hopefully, we will continue the dialogue and continue to find a place for women in the church, in the leadership of the church because it’s a voice we need to hear. It’s an influence. That we need to continue to have.

HEINEN: Pope Francis did in fact appoint four women to high-ranking positions within the Vatican and according to data gathered by the Vatican the female presence increased from almost 19.2% to 23.4% during Pope Francis’s pontificate. 

And so far Pope Leo has begun to carry on that effort as he just appointed Sister Tiziana Merletti as secretary of the Dicastery for Institutes of Consecrated Life and Societies of Apolstolic Life. A very long title, but, this position makes her responsible for all matters regarding government, discipline, studies, assets, rights and privileges of Catholic Churches worldwide. She will be the first ever woman to hold this position. 

It is clear that Pope Leo XIV has a lot to live up to and a lot of challenges to overcome. But, many Catholics are eager for his papacy and the changes he will make to the church. The pope has a very unique position in the world at large with a great capacity to make social, environmental and political change. 

I hope this episode has given you more insight into why the pope is so revered and why we should care about him. As my esteemed guests have stated, he truly impacts the lives of countless people and that alone is reason enough to pay attention to him. And he wears cool clothes too, that’s reason enough for me. 

But, that is all I have for you guys today. Thank you so much for tuning in and if you have any questions, comments or concerns don’t hesitate to send us an email at podcasting@mndaily.com. I would love, love, love to hear what you thought about this episode! And I would highly recommend watching the movie “Conclave” for an insider’s view of what happens behind locked doors. Then you might understand my conclave FOMO. 

Again, thank you for listening. I’m Ceci Heinen, and this has been In The Know.