ALBERTO GOMEZ: This one I got because I just thought it looked cool. Uh, the box is for the most important band in the world, the 1975. God bless. Uh, and then the flowers are for, the roses I have on my left forearm are for my mom.

OLIVIA STEVENS: Oh, cute.

GOMEZ: Because she was mostly a single mom, so she took up both, uh, parent slots. And then I got over here on my shoulder are marigolds for my grandparents who passed away when I was like 14.

MADDIE ROTH: Oh, amazing. Oh no,

GOMEZ: they’re delightful.

ROTH: That’s so nice.

STEVENS: Yeah, Maddie, why don’t you explain some of your tattoos?

ROTH: Uh, yeah, so I have 26 right now.

GOMEZ: Um, what? 26?

ROTH: I have 26. I’ll have 30 in a month.

STEVENS: So you like scheduled them out already? Can you tell us what the new ones are first?

ROTH: Yeah. So I got a matching tattoo with my best friend. Um, it’s three hearts. That’s what we send to each other, um, so it’s, that’s in his handwriting. And then he has one of my handwriting behind his ear. I got ‘the world is quiet here’ above my knee, which hurt like a b****, getting one above my knee. Um, it’s from, um, A Series of Unfortunate Events. My entire thigh is just gonna be quotes from my favorite books.

I have a Catcher In the Rye one like that above it. And then I’m really upset because I got this, I one up here and it’s a candle with mushrooms coming out of it. And all of my friends have been like, that looks like a bong. And I’m like, ‘it’s a candle.’ And now I’m now I don’t like it because it just, people have said that and it makes me sad.

GOMEZ: No, it’s quirky. You know?

STEVENS: It’s quirky. That’s what matters. It’s quirky to have a tattoo that people can kind of interpret in different ways.

ROTH: That’s not, that’s not what I want.

GOMEZ: Tattoos are gonna be like a personal thing though. You know? It’s know. It’s something, what matters most is like how you feel about it. And it sucks that people are ruining it in a way. I’m sorry dude.

ROTH: It is what it is. I have some dumb shit on my body, so you know, it is. That’s okay. Yeah. Okay.

STEVENS: Aren’t you gonna get, are you still getting a Daily tattoo?

ROTH: I need to proclaim this right now. Yes. I will get a Daily tattoo on my ass cheek at some point. I said it in DC

STEVENS: On your ass cheek?

ROTH: Yeah, I said it in DC. I will do it. Um, the world should know.

STEVENS: On that note, uh, I dunno if anyone else is gonna go that far on the staff, it might just be you.

ROTH: But I love the Daily and live, laugh, love, Daily. So I agree. Thank you,

STEVENS: The Daily’s great. You guys, keep listening.

GOMEZ: On that note, uh, thank you everyone. Uh, we started recording a little while ago. Um, thank you everyone for coming in. Uh, my name is Alberto Gomez and this is our, my last episode with the Daily. So we’re ending up with a little round table today. Uh, today our wonderful guests are, wanna introduce yourselves?

STEVENS: Yeah. I’m Olivia Stevens. I am the managing editor of The Daily. Yeah.

GOMEZ: And you may remember her from our last round table at the start of this semester, correct?

STEVENS: He did let me come back, so I was thinking he wouldn’t, so that was good.

GOMEZ: And uh, our new guest with a abundance of tattoos is —

ROTH: Hi, I’m Maddie Roth. I will be the managing editor next school year, replacing the great Olivia Stevens.

GOMEZ: Yeah. So essentially what we want to do today is just similarly to how we started last semester, or earlier this semester is just give a little personality, some, uh, voices to the Daily staff. So Olivia, how long have you been with the Daily?

STEVENS: So I started with the Daily, um, the summer after my freshman year of college. And it was right after COVID, like we were kind of opening up back again, and I kind of just saw that there was an opening and so I applied to be an intern, um, and had absolutely like no idea what I was doing. Um, I had never taken a journalism class, and so I just like, kind of jumped right in and started doing some like state leg, legislative reporting and city government reporting, um, and just was absolutely terrible at it. But I kept going and I just haven’t really like stopped since — I’ve just been here hanging out for that long. I think, Maddie, you’ve been here almost as long as I have.

ROTH: Yeah, I started my first semester of college, like —

STEVENS: That’s crazy

ROTH: Yeah. I applied, was told by Niamh, the old editor in chief, that I wasn’t gonna get a position and then got an email a week later saying, ‘Hey, we wanna hire you.’ So it’s been almost two years? Three years? Math?

STEVENS: Math, because yeah, you’re, you’re a sophomore and I’m a senior, but like a three-year senior, so it’s like weird. But. Yeah, we probably started around the same time. That’s really interesting.

GOMEZ: Wait, you’ve only, you’re graduating in three years, not four.

STEVENS: Yeah.

GOMEZ: Oh, okay. Fast tracking. All right. You’re better than us.

STEVENS: Yeah, basically. Like, I’m just better than everyone. It’s no big deal. But no, it’s just been, it’s just been not fun. That’s what I would say about that. But, no, it’s good.

GOMEZ: So, Maddie, what desk did you originally start on?

ROTH: I have stayed on campus desk the entire time I’ve been here. But I guess I also did, um, like in the summer when they do campus and admin together, I did a lot of Board of Regents stuff cause there’s nothing going on with students over the summer. So campus desk is best desk, I’m gonna say that right now.

GOMEZ: Well, I mean, you’re on my show so, so I have to disagree with there. But, um, no, that’s delightful. Thanks so much.

STEVENS: When did you start and how did you get started?

GOMEZ: Oh yeah. Uh, so I started — I started drinking in October. Um, no, I started in October, 2021. Uh, I was a junior and a professor was like, ‘Alberto, you’re not doing anything. You’re kind of disappointing everyone, uh, you should just apply.’ Like get something, like something. Okay. So I saw a podcast or reporter position open. I applied and I was like, I have no experience in this at all. Um, still, I was lucky enough to have a good enough microphone at home, so the producer at the time, I’m not gonna name her because she ended up ghosting me three weeks into getting the job.

She was like, oh yeah, you know, I think you’ve got what it takes, I think it’ll be a good start. Let’s see what you can do. Um, yeah, so I did, I got halfway through one story and then she stopped texting me back. She didn’t answer any of my calls, emails. I was freshly onboarded. I had met no one on the staff, so it was just me for an entire semester.

And I’ll admit I didn’t know what the heck to do, so I kind of just didn’t really do anything. I was just quietly working on a small report on, um, how different, like student orgs were like supporting, like voting, uh, in the municipal election. So, yeah, I was doing that by myself without knowing what the heck I was doing.

Like I’d only freshly, like, fully went into the J school too, so.

STEVENS: Oh, wow. So you, you were running the desk by yourself?

GOMEZ: I was running the desk by myself without knowing what the heck I was supposed to be doing.

STEVENS: That’s really crazy.

GOMEZ: Yeah. And then I think it was like a couple weeks before the semester ended, I finally found out who our editor-in-chief was. I finally got in contact with Niamh, was that how I pronounce her name?

STEVENS: Niamh, I think.

GOMEZ: But at the time, we’re sorry for butchering your name. Um, but yeah, I randomly came across her email, emailed her and said like, ‘hi, I’m a, I’m our podcast reporter. I don’t know what’s happening. My boss hasn’t emailed me back. I don’t know what to do.’ And then her and Lydia, um, ended up guiding me through the rest of the episode and figuring out what the heck to do. And then we put out my first episode and they’re like, ‘Hey, there’s no one else here. Do you want the job?’ As like a producer.

So, I hopped into that without knowing what the hell to do. Zero experience, zero understanding on the medium either, and just kind of hopped into it.

ROTH: So you’re basically an icon is what I’m hearing.

STEVENS: Um, he’s a legend that, well, you kept the podcast desk alive. Like, if Alberto wasn’t here, this like, what would’ve happened? We don’t know. Like this might never exist, so that’s incredible.

GOMEZ: I think I’m pretty happy with how it turned out so far. I mean, like, it’s not dead yet, and let’s hope to keep it that way.

ROTH: Yes, please. It’ll never die, I promise you.

STEVENS: Okay, Maddie, the futures are in your hands.

GOMEZ: Maddie, as like managing editor, future managing editor, what do you want, uh, podcast desk to be?

ROTH: I think kind of like to set up my answer to this question. I just wanna say this, this is nothing against any of the managing editors that we’ve had in the past. Nothing at all —

GOMEZ: Except Olivia.

STEVENS: Except just me. Yeah.

ROTH: Um, but I just feel like managing editors really could be doing so much more. Um, and I want to — Alex is so busy with like the administrative stuff and the business stuff, um, as well as all of editorial — I wanna step up and make our editorial like stronger. It’s already strong, but I wanna do everything I can in my power to be a leader and have it be stronger, and that means having a strong, independent podcast like you’ve been running this entire time. I wanna do everything I can to keep it alive.

I’ve been looking for people the past two, three weeks to just come join podcast because I truly think no other student publication has something as special as we have here. There’s a reason that Daily is like notable and honorable. Um, and I think it’s because of things like podcast. We stand out because of it. So thank you for everything you’ve done. I want to do everything I can to keep this alive. I think this is so important.

STEVENS: Yeah, and the Daily’s been through, through so much, um, since like the pandemic and everything. And I think we’re finally getting to a place where like the recovery we’re, we might be able to grow rather than just try and come back.

Um, and so I’m really excited to see like what you end up doing with it, because there’s just so much, like I think there’s a lot of opportunity for like, new talent to come in. And just really like, make the Daily, like such a strong, strong like educational, um, media source. So I’m really excited about that for you guys, for sure. You definitely have like a good future ahead of you for like, as far as just like leading and doing all of that. So Yeah.

GOMEZ: I remember like the last, I guess two years, yeah, let’s go with two years has been very much like the Daily trying to reestablish, rebound itself, you know?

Everyone knows, like during, uh, I guess your freshman year and my sophomore year, a lot of institutions, uh, just tanked in one way or another. Um, I know like the Daily is, has still like been trying to recover, be it getting us all back into our offices or just trying to recoup like, uh, our viewer, listener, reader base.

GOMEZ: I’m not sure exactly what editorial, what problems editorial is experiencing, but I know we definitely have been.

STEVENS: It’s the same here too, I think.

GOMEZ: So you were only the managing editor for a semester? Just one semester

STEVENS: Yeah.

GOMEZ: What exactly do you think you did? Uh, yeah, simple as that.

STEVENS: ‘Why were you here?’ No, that’s a good question. I didn’t really know I was gonna get the position until I think, like, a couple weeks before I started. Um, and yeah, I didn’t really know like a whole lot about kind of what the managing editor’s role was. And I, um, I knew that I’d kind of seen, like I was watching a little bit of like what Bella, she was there before me, um, kind of had done in her couple of semesters here.

Um, but I was really lucky that, like Maia was, was kind of in the, at the point where she felt like very comfortable in her position and kind of knew how to run everything really smoothly and like, just felt like we could really kind of start focusing on, um, making some like positive changes. Um, and so I guess like my biggest role as the managing editor this semester has been just really like assisting her with um, kind of making sure that we are covering really big issues.

This has been a really huge news semester for the daily. Um, and it’s been, it’s been tough cause we, you know, like reporters have their plans of like what they wanna cover and what they pitch and what they’re excited to go out and do. But a lot of times, breaking news will happen and you know, we kind of have to drop everything and just be able to cover it.

And as students, that’s like super difficult. Um, so like for example, over spring break, like Maia and I worked together to like cover some, um, of like the Fairview Hospital merger, um, situation. We went to the state legislature and like watched a meeting and kind of like got quotes and just did that and we wrote it all up together.

Um, yeah, there has been just like a lot of late nights of doing that kind of thing. Um, And yeah, the two of us worked on a pretty big story that I got, I kind of got a tip on where I was able to, um, kind of talk to victims of, um, stalking that like had happened from like a USG presidential candidate.

Um, and so me and Maia are supposed to be releasing, um, a pretty large story on that soon. So I think I’ve been kind of spearheading a lot of those efforts and she’s just kind of continuing to run the ship, being incredibly amazing and like helping out with absolutely everything. Um, and she is honestly like, a goddess, like she’s incredible.

Um, and so I just like wanna help her however I possibly can. And just like, I’m always willing to do kind of whatever she needs of me, um, just to make sure that like the Daily keeps running smoothly, like, until we graduate. So, yeah. I don’t know, but like, yeah, I’m curious, like, do you have any other like really big goals that you’re kind of hoping to be able to accomplish by the time you leave? Because you’ve got a long time, you’ve got almost a year, um, before you’re done.

ROTH: So I think for me personally, and I’m sure you both can relate to this, um, when people come into the Daily, they start and they’re terrified. They think it’s super overwhelming. It’s so much work. And then we have people quit or just like —

GOMEZ: They get scared of it.

ROTH: I really want to work more closely with people and reassure them like, Hey, yeah, this is hard, but it is so worth it. I’ve learned so much from this. I was in that position where I wanted to quit and I’m so grateful that I didn’t. Um, but I think we need to, we need to be better about training people and like Alex and I have talked about communicating a lot with the fact of like, if people are struggling, reach out to us. Please reach out to us. We will answer any questions. We just wanna make sure people feel good in their position because the Daily is incredible if you do put the effort in and make the most of it.

STEVENS: So yeah, you really have the ability to kind of do whatever you’re, you kind of set your mind to here. And I think that’s kind of the beauty of it. Like, you’re not really being limited by a whole lot. If you have a good idea, you can pursue it, like no matter what. Um, and so I think that that’s kind of what makes the Daily, like super unique and special — you’re not getting assigned random things that you don’t wanna do. You really get the chance to like, make your own way. And so I, I’ve loved that about working here.

GOMEZ: And so I try to tell most of our, uh, everyone that I’ve hired for podcast desk has never had like, experience in either this specific format or even in, uh, newsroom.

My two current reporters, like, neither of them are journalism majors. Neither of them have really written for a publication before. But still, you know, we try to encourage them, like the Daily’s a learning institution, you know, you’re going to make a lot of mistakes. God knows that I did and God knows all three of us did. Um, but yeah, it’s important to understand that no matter what mistakes you make, it’s fine. You wanna learn from them. That’s what we’re trying to do. And people have the ability to form out whatever niche or specific thing they want to cover, you know, and it’s — You talk about how beautiful the Daily is, and I think that’s where the beauty is for me that everyone is given an opportunity just to, yeah, try experiment, you know?

STEVENS: And everyone does it differently. That’s the nice thing, like everyone has their own style. Everyone has their own things that they love to cover, and so you get to see people’s like, even though like, obviously we try and be objective in everything to do. You know, you kind of see people’s like personalities come through a little bit, which I think is awesome. And like the podcast desk I think is a huge part of like personifying the Daily. Um, and it’s just really important in doing that so that people kind of can hear and like kind of get to know, um, reporters as well as just like see their writing.

GOMEZ: So what was your story? What was, you talk about having the ability to pursue what you want or pursue the things that you really were interested. What was your thing?

STEVENS: My thing. That’s a really good question. So I think that what I ended up becoming really passionate about, that I kind of realized through the Daily, um, but didn’t probably get the chance to explore like quite as much as I’d want to, um, was like mental health systems at the U.

Um, I had the opportunity when I was like one of my first big stories that I did was, um, on kind of just the struggles that people were facing trying to get help for substance use here. Um, I just really, I was able to talk to like a real, a lot of really amazing, like alumni here and people who were actually actively going and just talk to them about kind of like what, how the University like, just wasn’t doing enough for them and how a lot, a lot of them are like falling through the cracks and so, Um, that was a story that I think I was just like, really passionate about. And following that, like I just continued to monitor, you know, it was after the pandemic, like the U just had an insane, um, like just deluge of people who have wanted to get mental health services and just not enough, um, like supports for the services.

And so like, I’ve experienced myself like waiting just like for weeks to like see a counselor just to make an appointment. And I’ve like been told like, ‘you need to, you’re gonna be waiting for weeks if you don’t go to an outside place and use your own insurance instead of using like our, our school-provided insurance.’

Um, and so that’s something that like I personally experienced and just like realized could be really frustrating for someone who was like, really in crisis or like really needed it. And so that’s something that I just like, kind of found out that I was really interested in and um, I’m hoping to be doing that kind of work, um, this summer after the Daily too.

ROTH: At MPR, where she’ll be an icon.

STEVENS: Well this is good practice, right? Yeah. Cause I’m gonna have to do some radio stuff, so this is gonna be interesting.

GOMEZ: Are you doing anything over the summer?

ROTH: I was, um, but I, so I have an internship right now at MinnPost, um, and it’s been really crazy. Um, and I was going to do a journalism internship, but I actually declined it because, my mental health has been really bad this entire year. Um, and I really just need a break. So I’m going to just be managing editor, um, and take some time to find my way back to myself.

STEVENS: That’s amazing, Maddie. That actually makes me really happy because in this industry, like, oh my gosh, it’s so hard to find that. It’s so hard to find that and like, take that time and just feel like you can. And I know you can too, which is amazing cause you’re like so young and have accomplished so much already. Um, but that makes me really happy cause I know you need self care more than like most people I know. So, sorry. Just saying — Maddie’s been through some things. She has stories. She has a lot of stories.

ROTH: So now is a good time for the Ohio story.

GOMEZ: We can’t, sadly. I got a preview of the Ohio story and we can’t share that here. Do you have something a bit more, uh, what’s the word, PG-13 or school appropriate?

ROTH: What was your favorite podcast that you produced, created?

GOMEZ: Oh, God. Um, apparently the one that people most liked was a crime story. I did, uh, last summer semester. Or essentially like, do you remember the, the shooting in front of the co-op?

ROTH: I did a story on that. I did so much coverage.

GOMEZ: With like the 15-year-old and whatever the heck. Um, so I took like your, was it, it was yours. Oh my God. I’m sorry. I basically took, uh, some of that reporting and tried to turn into like a feature story and tried to take like, okay, this happened, uh, right outside of my window.

I live at the Venue in Dinkytown, uh, right next to Burrito Loco and across from K-Pop. There were, I think, two shootings that happened right outside my gosh dang window. And I was awake with my girlfriend there at the time, and, you know, it was terrifying. So I was inspired to write a story about like, you know, what is causing this visible, uh, uptick in crime, uh, what can be done to stop it?

What is the U doing to stop it and you know, what is possibly like the sources and whatnot, right? Um, from what I was able to find, uh, according to statistics that were provided by the Star Tribune, there wasn’t really an uptick in crime necessarily, like over past years. It was just summer, people are outside, things are gonna happen a little more, but it wasn’t necessarily a more dangerous summer.

Uh, and then we also talked about like, yo, what’s, you know, what’s gonna be done to, to fix the problem? And to my surprise, it’s just bushes, like just adding bushes, trees, and lights. And things like that make neighborhoods safer. And while I was talking to, um, I forget who was the professor I was speaking with, I was thinking like, no, you’re lying to me.

You, that’s just, that’s just bull, right? And she was like, no, no, no, no, no. So we go through different, um, report studies from a, some school in Pennsylvania, another one from the, like the John Jay Institute, I think it’s called for like criminology. And I really like study after study after study, realizing.

Adding a bush, adding a tree is more helpful than, uh, adding like police and whatnot. So that was a fun story. You’re just looking at me wide-eyed.

ROTH: I’m just like, gun control? No. Bushes? Hell yeah. Yeah. Right. Absolutely. Why is that the thing?

GOMEZ: Apparently it’s like it’s good for your mental health and like going to parks is good for people cuz it provides a place to socialize and make fun.

And nobody wants a park to be unsafe in the first place, you know? But it’s like, what are you gonna do with a concrete parking lot? You know?

STEVENS: Yeah. I mean, yeah, that’s true. That’s a good point. Um, no, that story was really influential. Like I was covering crime that summer, um, on city desk and was going to, like, a lot of those parent meetings that they were having, they were like really upset about this.

And they were like really seeing, like, they were like, ‘oh, this is such a huge increase in crime, like, we have to do something about this.’ Um, and I was actually like, I didn’t know who he was at the time, but I was approached like at the Legislature by, um, Darrin Rosha, who’s one of the U of M regents.

ROTH: Love.

STEVENS: Yeah. And he like came up to me and he had that story printed out the, the podcast script.

GOMEZ: You’re shitting?

STEVENS: No, I’m not. And he came up to me and was just like, you work for the Daily? And I was like, yeah. And he was like, ‘this podcast was like just a really amazing, like, um, coverage of this crime.’ And I just thought it was really impactful.

GOMEZ: Why did no one tell me this?

STEVENS: I dunno. I just, like, I didn’t, I didn’t think about it until, yeah, no, but it’s, he was really, he was, thought it was really cool. I didn’t know who you were at the time Also cause I was like just a new reporter and like, I’d never interacted with a pod.

I didn’t even know. I don’t, I don’t know if I even knew we had to podcast because I was just never paying attention to anything.

GOMEZ: But most people don’t. It’s, it’s very hidden gem, I guess. Well, I’m glad that it’s like, at least it’s now on a place in the front page where you can like at least see all the episodes or whatever.

STEVENS: But yeah, no, that was really, I don’t know, I thought that was really cool. I was like, dang, like that I, cause I was looking through it and I was like, yeah, this is really impressive. I was like, this is great reporting.

GOMEZ: Gosh dang. I dunno.

STEVENS: You should be proud of that. That was awesome. That was a hard hitting news story. Dang. I was thinking like it was just some piece of thing that, because I remember it only got like on Spotify, I think 150 viewers, which was one of our most viewed or listened to podcasts at the time, but, I didn’t really think much of it. Yeah. And you were probably still kind of new at that point too.

STEVENS: And so that was kind of like, um, right. And now I’m sure you we’re getting a little bit more traction. Now that it’s more consistent. But no, that was a great, that was a great piece. Um, what’s your favorite story that you’ve done, Maddie? Cause I know you, you’re, you get, she, she’s like one of the most passionate —

GOMEZ: She goes around, right?

STEVENS: She’s one of the most passionate reporters I have ever met. She is incredibly just, she puts her heart in absolutely everything she does. And I think that that is like just the most inspiring thing ever. And so that’s what I like, love about Maddie’s reporting the most. And I know that you have some stories that you’ve been really proud of, so I like wanna hear one?

ROTH: Um, oh, it’s, it’s a tie between two of them I guess because. Um, something that I love about Olivia is be that we both have the same drive for the opioid epidemic. In combating it. Um, and so I did two pieces this past semester. One on, um, heroin and then one on fentanyl. Um, and I got to talk to, um, a woman who was a heroin addict when she was 15 through 19.

Um, and she’s been sober for seven years. Her story was incredible. I talked to the wife of a professor who passed away from an accidental fentanyl overdose. Um, and that story too. I also love and appreciate Olivia because those stories took a long time to get done. We had a lot of issues with them, but um, she was patient with me.

She never gave up on me. Um, and I did these stories, um, and cried my eyes out because they were just these people, this woman who lost her husband. I think there’s a quote in my story and she said something along the lines of like, he was my soulmate. He was everything to me. And now he’s gone and I can’t do anything about it.

STEVENS: Yeah. He died of an accidental overdose too, which is just really crazy. And he was, um, a U of M economist. Um, While he was here. And yeah, Maddie obviously you connected really closely with her. And since Maddie has that like personal experience and like connection, I think that she can just get like a lot deeper with, with people like that, which is such a, a strength and like is so needed.

Um, because yeah, especially mental health coverage is really hard to do responsibly and not make it look like you’re just like trying to, I don’t know, just sensationalize it. Um, and so I think that that’s like absolutely essential and it’s amazing that she’s able to do that for sure.

ROTH: Aw, The other thing I would say is Housing and Residential Life. I can’t stand those people. They’re the worst.

GOMEZ: How do you mean?

ROTH: Let me just tell you.

STEVENS: Well, you can’t say too much because Yeah, you need to work with them. That we have to work with them next year, Maddie.

ROTH: I do?

STEVENS: Yeah, you do.

ROTH: Basically. I’ll just – Okay, I’ll, I’ll umbrella it. I just, I’ve done a lot of coverage on the, like, break-ins that have happened.

Um, and it was really interesting. Um, Gillian and I were looking at trends from like the bathroom break-ins cause there’s been so many since I was a freshman. Um, and there were none before. Yeah, like before the pandemic. Like when, like when you were a freshman. There were, there were no, there was none.

Ugh. There was none. And so like, I just, I. Every time, um, HRL like gives us an email, they’re just like, we’re doing what we can and it’s just not enough. And they’re, so, they’re trying to sweep all of this under the, the rug, and it’s like, we need to tell people if there are break-ins in these residence halls, like it’s um, it’s, like just not —

GOMEZ: It’s alarming you, it’s not a safe environment for people to participate in.

ROTH: Yeah. It’s just been a lot of, like Gillian, bless her heart for doing this story, like has found all of these freshmen are saying that like, HRL is not telling them when people are breaking in. Like, they don’t know.

And that’s just I, that’s just a, I can’t believe that. I don’t understand why this University doesn’t wanna see. We’ve done so much for safety in terms of the city and the areas around us, but when it comes to residence halls, they don’t do anything. And I think that’s something parents should be mad about.

STEVENS: Yeah. And that’s something me and Maia are covering right now too. And so that’s gonna be, that kind of actually really connects cause like, I think the main point of the story we’re working on is that, um, the University is somewhere that students assume they’re going to feel really safe. That like being in a residence hall, you assume everyone around you is vetted or like everyone around you is a student, so they’re everyone’s fine and like you’re not gonna get hurt or you’re not gonna get just looked at when you’re in the bathroom.

Um, and, you know, like the fact of the matter is it’s still a place that like, that people can get in and people can infiltrate and that it’s not just like this, like safe haven for students and the, the administration doesn’t necessarily have the motive to do absolutely everything they can to make it completely a safe environment for students if they’re not forced to.

GOMEZ: So, yeah. When should, uh, we be expecting that story out?

STEVENS: I think it’ll come out, It’ll definitely come out next week. So that’ll be interesting, um, to see how you, how that’s received, because, um, we’ve been working on that for like, quite a few weeks now and probably talked to like 20 people.

It’s gonna be, um, it’s gonna be interesting. So yeah, keep an eye out for that. Um, that’s gonna be me and Maia’s last story for the Daily.

GOMEZ: I’m happy that it’ll be something that’s actually like, very impactful, you know?

STEVENS: Yeah. I’m excited about it. I think that, yeah, we have worked just really hard on it, and so I think hopefully it’ll get some, like good reception, people wanna read it.

GOMEZ: Incite positive change, that’s what journalists wanna do. Right?

STEVENS: I don’t know, like for me, I guess, like you, you always hope that your story’s gonna have like a positive impact, but you know, I, I can’t really expect that because I feel like, I don’t know, sometimes it’s just like, it is the way it is and at least people know about it. Right? That’s, that’s all I can offer is that if, if they know about it, they can go and do what they want with that. Um, but like, it’s not my job to, you know, try and actually make the change unfortunately. Like that’s just, yeah, that’s kind of where we stop, I guess. But yeah. Yeah.

GOMEZ: Well, on that note, we’ve been talking for about 30 minutes now. Uh, the episode was supposed to be 20, but, um, that’s fine. We’ll enjoy this, um, I wanna thank you guys both for coming in for our last episode of the season, my last episode at, uh, the Daily, and I really appreciate it.

STEVENS: Do you have any reflections before we go?

GOMEZ: Uh, what do you mean?

STEVENS: Just on your experience here and like going forward, kind of what, what you hoped to take out of this.

GOMEZ: Uh, I think I, I think about that a lot. Uh, something that I really wish I did when I was younger was I, I cared a lot more, you know, cause it’s like, it’s easy for some people to just like, slip by and just like, do what you need to, to get the B or the B minus, you know? Uh, and I very much feel like I, I had been doing that for like, most of my life. And, uh, every now and then, uh, when I gotta work with a reporter or on an own independent story at the Daily, I was really able to come alive and feels like I was able to give that, that 90 to 100%.

STEVENS: Yeah.

GOMEZ: You know, and that’s one of, of the most, most satisfying feelings.

STEVENS: Mm-hmm. That’s an amazing feeling.

GOMEZ: Um, and I wish I did that more. I just really do. You can do that in the feed for now. I’ll do that wherever the heck I end up. Who knows?

STEVENS: Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Cause you found what you love and it’s just sometimes it takes a while, dude.

GOMEZ: Audio’s like easily my favorite format. You know, it’s, you don’t worry. I don’t have to worry about an extra camera. All I have to do is just sit down, microphone and let people talk. And it’s such a beautiful way to I agree. Let people shine. Yeah. Because everyone speaks in their own the way. Yeah. And it’s beautiful.

STEVENS: Yeah. And you have the most beautiful voice of all podcast producers.

GOMEZ: I’m aware.

ROTH: Thank, I wanna say thank you to Alberto. You have really been incredible as at your, like, your time in your time here and the Daily is going to miss you incredibly — we truly will not be the same without you. So thank you for everything you’ve done.

STEVENS: Yeah, you have made an actual huge impact here and I think that that is something that’s really, really special. So yeah. Thank you. Thanks. Thanks so much for having us. Yeah, thank you. Thank you.

GOMEZ: Um, so yeah, like we said last episode, uh, moving forward, uh, taking over for a podcast desk will be Kaylie Sirovy. Uh, I’ll be taking May to help train her up and she’ll be, I’m taking my position over the summer and we’ll see if we have an additional reporter to help her out.

Otherwise, um, I hope all of our listeners still stay tuned and give her the best support that she gets, you know, uh, I’m very excited to see what she creates over the summer and to see how In The Know continues to develop. On that note, um, I’m Alberto Gomez.

ROTH: I’m Maddie Roth.

STEVENS: I’m Olivia Stevens.

GOMEZ: And, uh, this is In The Know.

INTRO MUSIC

MAIA IRVIN:  Oh my, um, my roommate has a snake at our, that’s actually at our house.

ALBERTO GOMEZ: What’s the snake’s name?

IRVIN: Mira.

GOMEZ: Mira?

OLIVIA STEVENS: Cute.

IRVIN: Yes. Okay, so she is Mexican and does speak Spanish, but she did not realize that she named the snake.

GOMEZ: The snake?

IRVIN: No. Sorry, my roommate. Sorry. My roommate speaks Spanish, and her whole family does, and she didn’t realize when she named the snake that she named it like a Spanish word. She just liked the name Mira.

STEVENS: She looks or he looks?

IRVIN: Yeah. She also thought that Mira was like a girl when she first got her, and then we later found out that it’s a male, but no men are allowed in our house.

GOMEZ: You have that rule too?

IRVIN: So, so Mira still uses she/her pronouns..

STEVENS: I love that for her.

GOMEZ: Um, so confession. We’ve been recording for a minute. Uh, I just wanna let you know that this is going in the episode.

IRVIN: That’s totally fine.

GOMEZ: Thank you. So without further ado, um, hi everyone. Uh, this is Alberto Gomez. I’m the editor for, uh, the, In the Know show thing that we do here. Um, today, I have, uh, my two bosses in the room with me today. Do you guys wanna introduce yourselves?

STEVENS: Um, yeah, sure. So my name’s Olivia. I am the managing editor at the Daily. Um, I am new to this position. I just started the semester. Um, before, I was an associate editor on the campus activities desk. So very exciting stuff.

GOMEZ: And, uh, Maia, what’s your name?

IRVIN: Okay, well first Olivia, what’s your last name though?

STEVENS: Do you really wanna know? That’s private information.

IRVIN: Do you have a middle name?

STEVENS: That’s private information, I don’t know if I should share that. Do I have a middle name? Um, yeah. So my full name is Olivia Helen Stevens, which is a gorgeous name. I know. It’s beautiful.

IRVIN: It is a gorgeous name.

STEVENS: What’s your full name?

IRVIN: My full name? You want to know? My full name is Maia Janae Irvin. Yep.

STEVENS: I love it. That’s such an old white lady name.

IRVIN: Janae? Wait, you wanna know why that’s my middle name?

STEVENS: I think everyone wants to know .

GOMEZ: Why would they give you a name like that?

IRVIN: My mom met a random lady when she was in Hawaii, when she was pregnant with me, and she really liked her name. So I’m named after a random lady my mom met on vacation in Hawaii.

GOMEZ: It’s so sentimental.

STEVENS: That’s actually cool.

GOMEZ: Yeah, it’s actually a cool story. My name isn’t nearly as cool.

STEVENS: What’s yours?

GOMEZ: Oh, so my middle name’s actually Alberto. Um, I don’t use my first name. My first name is, uh, Pedro. My dad snuck it onto my birth certificate.

My mom hates that name. She hates it. She doesn’t like the name at all. Um, but like, while my mom was pregnant with me, my dad was like trying to say like, “Come on, we should name our son after my great grandfather,” who he never met. My dad never met my great-grandfather. All he knows is his name is Pedro.

STEVENS: Why?

GOMEZ: Because he thinks that the name Pedro Alberto Gomez sounds good. And it does. But my mom was like, ‘No, I don’t know who this man is.’

IRVIN: So like while your mom was like drugged up, like giving birth, your dad was like, ‘Gimme that birth certificate.’

STEVENS: Oh my gosh. I love exploitation of mothers. Literally the women who birth us, we love. Oh my gosh.

GOMEZ: Yeah. No one in my family has called me by my first name. Uh, I stopped using that first name completely after middle school. I’m just Alberto.

IRVIN: That’s so interesting. Yeah.

STEVENS: That’s a cool backstory.

GOMEZ: Yeah. I mean it’s not, you know, random woman in Hawaii, but yeah.

IRVIN: And then she named me Maia because, and spelled it that way, because like we’re Polish, right? And I also grew up Catholic (do that with do with that what you will) but um, my grandpa told her that Maia spelled m-a-i-a means Mary in Polish. And he wasn’t actually correct because I later looked it up and told my mom that my name actually means great mother.

STEVENS: You’re gonna be a fantastic mother.

IRVIN: Yeah. I love kids.

STEVENS: I’m sure you do.

GOMEZ: You don’t want kids?

IRVIN: Okay, so have you ever, have you heard of like the ring test?

GOMEZ: No. What is this?

IRVIN: Oh my gosh. Okay. So you have to have someone else do it on you. You can’t do it on yourself, but you take like a strand of your hair and like a ring that you wear. I don’t wear a ring, so I use my.

GOMEZ: I have a ring.

IRVIN: Well, no, it has to be like my ring, and you can’t do it on a guy cause it’s supposed to show like how many kids you’re going to like physically have. Or, well, you can’t do it on someone who like biologically cannot have children. So yeah, you take like a strand of your hair and like a ring, some sort of like ring that you wear and then string the hair through the ring and then you like do the, it’s so hard to like tell you how to do it.

I’m like showing you how to do it. You kind of like swing the ring back and forth between your fingers with like your hands splayed out. And then you bring it up top on top of like the back of your hand. And if the ring like swings back and forth, that means like you’re supposed to have like a boy.

If it goes in a circle, you’re supposed to have a girl. And then if it just like stops, then you’re done. It’s like really hard to explain without like just showing you how to do it. I think it, it’s like a, I don’t know.

STEVENS: It’s witchy.

IRVIN: It’s yeah, well, I mean, I think I was a witch in a past life.

GOMEZ: What?

STEVENS: Yeah, she’s told me that before. She likes to mention, bring it up in conversation.

GOMEZ: It’s the hair; the frizzy hair gives it away.

IRVIN: Yeah. Thank you so much. Um, most people think that I’m Jewish when they see my frizzy hair, witch in a past life, but yeah.

STEVENS: Wait do you not actually have Jewish relatives?

IRVIN: No. No. In eighth grade we were reading the Diary of Anne Frank and this kid sitting next to me turns to me and goes, “You know, Maia, you kinda look like Anne Frank.” And I was like, “I don’t know how to take that.”

STEVENS: Anne Frank was cute.

IRVIN: Yeah. No, but, and like I work at Wally’s. So like my, I mean my boss isn’t Jewish, but she’s from Gaza and like we have a lot of Palestinian people come in to eat there.

And like, so I get asked frequently like, if it’s not, “Are you Arab?” it’s, “Are you Jewish?” And I’m like, “I’m not either.” So anyway, I had my friend Maria with the snake do the ring test on me and it said I’m supposed to have one boy, which if I’m gonna have kids, I think that’s my max.

STEVENS: I can see that.

GOMEZ: Being a mother of one or being a mother of a son?

STEVENS: Uh, both. Yeah, they both fit her. Yeah, they both fit that really well. Which is really interesting to me.

GOMEZ: What would your name-?

STEVENS: You’d be a cool single mom too. I don’t know why I see you being a single mom. That was just like a Freudian slip. Like I should not have said that, but I could see that for you too.

IRVIN: Yeah, find me a ring. I’ll do the test on you, Olivia.

STEVENS: Yeah, I’m wearing one. Oh, okay. We’ll do it.

GOMEZ: Oh, do we do the test? Do we have string?

IRVIN: No, no. We need her hair.

GOMEZ: Oh. Just pluck one out.

STEVENS: We can’t do that. Right? Do we really wanna do that right now?

IRVIN: I dunno. We can always edit it out, right?

GOMEZ: I mean, yeah, we could edit it out, but this is, this is kind of fun.

IRVIN: I do this, I’ve done this on like all of my coworkers, like at the restaurant.

GOMEZ: Yeah, this is supposed to be a podcast about the news and the Daily, but no, this is way more fun.

IRVIN: Okay. Okay. No, that’s okay. I hold lots of people’s hair.

GOMEZ: Did you watch like sports or golf commentators?

IRVIN: No, do you keep up with sports?

GOMEZ: Oh god no.

IRVIN: Oh, okay.

GOMEZ: No, I don’t.

IRVIN: I don’t either.

STEVENS: No, I don’t think any of the leadership, main leadership at the Daily.

IRVIN: Uh, we have Tony.

ASSORTED: Tony, yeah.

IRVIN: Tony’s our sports editor. For those of you who are unaware. Okay. Now take, put your hand out like this. Oh my gosh. I never realized how long your fingers were.

STEVENS: I also have like really red hands, kind of like you.

IRVIN: Thank you. I have blood circulation problems. I have Raynaud’s. Just for anyone who’s curious.

GOMEZ: And she’s –

STEVENS: You’re all learning the important information about Maia.

GOMEZ: -her fingers. On the top of her hand. It’s not really doing, it’s not doing anything.

IRVIN: Um, yeah, I’ll test it again cause that means that you’re not gonna have kids.

STEVENS: Uh oh.

GOMEZ: Congratulations.

STEVENS: I’m gonna be an old spinster.

IRVIN: Spread your, spread your fingers a little more. Let me try it again. I swear it works. I’ve done it multiple times on the same people and it’s like, it’s always the same combination. If you’re not gonna have any kids, this is a really bad example.

STEVENS: Yeah, we can. I do. Yeah. And Alberto can’t do it. I’m not gonna have children. You guys.

IRVIN: Wait, wait. Oh, it’s doing a circle. It’s a circle. That’s a girl. And I’m not doing anything. Do you see my fingers?

GOMEZ: Yeah. You’re, you’re still.

STEVENS: Still, but like last time it didn’t do anything.

IRVIN: I know, that’s because I don’t think your fingers were splayed enough. Cause I kept hitting like the edges.

GOMEZ: The aura wasn’t right.

IRVIN: Yeah, exactly.

STEVENS: Did that just mean one, or what was it?

IRVIN: Yeah, so that means one girl. So basically I do it until it stops. All right. Olivia, you’re having one girl.

STEVENS: Oh, cute. Our girl and boy can be boyfriend and girlfriend and get married.

IRVIN: Yes.

STEVENS: That’s what’s gonna happen.

IRVIN: Anyways. Anyways, now that we’ve done that,

GOMEZ: Congratulations on being a single mother of one.

STEVENS: Thank you. I appreciate it.

IRVIN: You could also be a single mother of one.

GOMEZ: Oh my god. Two single moms. Slay. It’s 2018. This is a new trying time.

STEVENS: It’s 2018?

GOMEZ: Dude, it’s just a thing I say, alright?

STEVENS: I didn’t know that. I love it. Well, it’s like an inside joke.

GOMEZ: Whenever someone says like, it’s like, oh, what is it? Like someone will say like, something weirdly like not very progressive, like “Alberto’s kind of gay.” And I was like, “Yeah, it’s 2018, man. Get with the times.” It’s that kind of vibes. Sorry, that’s a dumb joke. Um, are we gonna get on topic or you wanna keep going?

IRVIN: You’re the one with the questions.

GOMEZ: Oh yeah, sure.

STEVENS: You run this whole thing, you know?

GOMEZ: Yeah. I don’t know. I’m just letting you guys go off the sticks. It’s kind of fun. Um, anyway, so yeah, Maia, you didn’t even tell us what you do at the Daily.

IRVIN: Oh, that’s true. We never got to that.

STEVENS: May be important information, considering you all have been, you all know so much about this person.

GOMEZ: Yeah, why are you here exactly?

IRVIN: Um, okay, so I’m the editor-in-chief this year. So I started in June and will go through May cuz that’s when I graduate, supposed to anyways. Um, yeah, you know, I’m here because there was no one else.

STEVENS: Oh, shut up.

GOMEZ: You had someone else vying for your job.

STEVENS: We do not need, we do not need the Daily readers and listeners to think that.

IRVIN: I’m kidding. I’m kidding. I just, you know, like to be self depreciating.

GOMEZ: Love it. It’s a good defense mechanism.

STEVENS: She’s very qualified for all of it. You can trust my opinion.

IRVIN: Thank you.

GOMEZ: I mean, the building hasn’t burned down yet, so.

IRVIN: That’s true. That’s very true. The Daily is not dead despite what so many people were trying to assert three months ago.

GOMEZ: What?

IRVIN: Didn’t you see that? G.G. was like getting mad about it too.

STEVENS: G.G. is a journalism professor.

IRVIN: Yeah. I’m so sorry.

STEVENS: For those of you who don’t know.

IRVIN: Yeah. Um, no okay. But okay. So, you know, like, okay. You know Jay Boller?

GOMEZ: Mm-hmm.

IRVIN: The Racket. So like, he used to be like an A&E reporter here, I think, um, like 10 years ago. And he was like talking with one of our columnists for a story and like, I don’t know, like throughout the conversation, that’s when he found out that we aren’t printing like a physical paper anymore.

And like he didn’t know about that even though we haven’t printed a physical paper the entirety of my time at the Daily at that point, like since COVID. And, um, so it was like a whole thing where then he like talked to me and like Charlie, our general manager, and stuff about, um, like what that decision was, why we’re doing things digitally the way that we are now.

And like wrote an article for the Racket on it. In like October, and part of it was like obviously like him talking about, like, kind of his own experiences, like going down memory lane. So some of it was more. I wouldn’t use the word like scathing, but like the headline was something like, “The Daily is like dead basically after a hundred years.”

Which is not true. So then like people on Twitter were like, “Oh my gosh, I can’t believe the Daily is like gone. Like that’s such a big institution.”

STEVENS: Because they just read the headline.

IRVIN: Right. And I was like, I’m still here, I’m still working, you know, my 30ish hours a week or whatever. And then, um, like Andy Mannix was like in with him too, like Andy from the Star Tribune, and him and Jay are friends and they were like both at the Daily, like 10 years ago.

And the thing was, Andy’s been teaching here the whole time. I don’t know how he didn’t know that the Daily wasn’t printing anymore. But anyways, that’s whatever.

STEVENS: Spread the word about the Daily

GOMEZ: Please, we’re a dying newspaper.

IRVIN: But then the Star Tribune also wanted to do an article after that. So then like, I don’t know, some other reporter like talked to me about it, and they did an article, and then G.G. was like, “All right, it’s my turn.”

Then G.G. wrote like an op-ed that got published in the Strib that was about like the Daily is not dead. We’re actually doing pretty good right now because we’re not printing physical papers anymore because the youngins don’t pick up papers anyways, so the Daily is not dead guys.

GOMEZ: Really?

IRVIN: Check your emails.

STEVENS: Read the newsletter.

GOMEZ: Oh, you write those every morning?

IRVIN: Yeah. Um, the first two weeks of school, not like every morning, because, you know, we’re just getting started up again, but probably next, starting next week, like every morning. Honestly, it like takes a lot more thought than you would think. Cuz I have to like talk about like something personal about my life, which like, you know to like, get it started, get it rolling and then go into the news. Like I’m not, I’m not that excited of a person.

So like, I think the last one I talked about, my roommates and I got in an argument, not like a real argument, the other night because we have our holiday decorations still up like inside our house from like Halloween and Christmas. It’s like The Nightmare Before Christmas and I absolutely love it. And they wanna take them down, and I don’t.

STEVENS: How long are you like hoping to keep them up?

IRVIN: Okay, here’s the thing. We came to a compromise. I said that we can take down, like we have these like jack-o-lanterns, like little lamp things, um, you know, around like the living room. I was like, we can take those down. We have these like bats like taped to the ceiling fans. Like if you turn the ceiling fan on, like the bats will like fly around it or whatever.

I was like, we can take those down and like the tinsel that I like strung out by the window and like we can even take the ornaments off the Christmas, the little Christmas tree. But I wanna keep all the lights up that we have because it’s just like a really good source of light. I like the ambiance, you know, when it gets cold and dark out.

So like that was my newsletter intro the other day was just like: “When do you, when is it like, when’s like the proper like etiquette to take down your holiday things?” And then my roommates read it and they were like, “So I saw your newsletter intro.” And they were like, “You failed to mention that holiday decorations meant both Christmas and Halloween.”

STEVENS: You did fail to mention that. That’s crazy.

IRVIN: They’re my two favorite holidays.

GOMEZ: I’m not gonna lie, my family just takes them down like New Year’s Day. Like it’s, everyone’s still tired and a little, you know, tipsy, and my mom will still make everyone like, “All right, come on, seven in the morning, come on, let’s go.”

IRVIN: Nah, I decorated for Halloween, like Oct. 5 this year or something. And then I put the Christmas tree up like Nov. 1. Like that’s how it goes.

STEVENS: You’re so festive.

IRVIN: I’m like, I’m really not, but like I just like the act of decorating. It’s about the aesthetics of it. It’s, yeah, it’s about the aesthetics of it.

GOMEZ: 100%.

IRVIN: Exactly.

GOMEZ: I’m assuming your apartment is boring as heck.

STEVENS: Oh, it actually really is.

IRVIN: I was gonna say, from like your Zoom background.

STEVENS: Okay, shush. First of all, I’m usually doing Zoom for my bed, and so have been trying, this semester I’ve been really trying to get the motivation to finally go like shopping, to decorate my room because I have one, like, I have one picture up right now because everything keeps falling down off my walls and it’s a signed Napoleon Dynamite poster. And so that is all I have hanging on my walls right now.

GOMEZ: It’s signed by the Napoleon Dynamite?

STEVENS: Nope, Pedro, of course. Duh. Obviously.

IRVIN: Oh wait…

STEVENS: Callback.

GOMEZ: No, I didn’t sign it, Maia. God, you’re so funny. I’ve never heard that joke before.

STEVENS: Was pretty good. That was pretty good.

IRVIN: I saw the opportunity. I felt like since we already talked about it, I feel like I had to take it, you know?

STEVENS: Yeah. It was just a callback. It was comedic.

GOMEZ: Thank you. That was middle school flashbacks of when I was bullied. Thank you.

STEVENS: Oh, Maia’s a bully everyone.

GOMEZ: Hi, workplace harassment? Jesus Christ.

IRVIN: HR’s gone for the day.

STEVENS: Yeah. Thank goodness.

IRVIN: Anyway, so you have this Napoleon Dynamite poster.

STEVENS: But that’s kind of it. So I need to, I’m trying to go, if you guys have any ideas for really good places to get like fun art that would match my Napoleon dynamite poster vibes. Like, let me know.

GOMEZ: Oh, you can, uh, send those answers to those. You can send an answer to that question in inquiry at, uh, podcasting@mndaily.com. Thank you very much.

STEVENS: Please do. Please do. I need your recommendations.

GOMEZ: I’ve been practicing that radio voice for like years.

STEVENS: Oh, it’s gorgeous.

GOMEZ: Thank you,

STEVENS: Sultry.

GOMEZ: Oh my god.

IRVIN: You could, you could totally do radio, Alberto.

GOMEZ: I have the face for it. I’ve been told.

STEVENS: Yeah. We’re not gonna argue with that. Oh my gosh.

GOMEZ: Olivia, what else do you do at the Daily? Managing editor? I don’t know what, yeah, I don’t, I don’t know what that means.

STEVENS: Yeah, that’s like a really good question. I didn’t really know what it meant either before I kind of got the job. Um, but basically I think the main thing that you guys like kind of need to know probably is that, um, I just take like a once-over through pretty much every article, and Maia does as well. So we both kind of like share that work of just like editing the stories and making sure that they look good before they are published. Um, I also just kind of like, I don’t know, I’m kind of like an assistant, so like I’m kind of like here, I’m like kind of like Maia’s little secretary. Not really, but that’s, I was trying to think of a good analogy, but, um, I don’t know, like we just kind of like, she’ll like let me know what’s going on. I can kind of like help make some decisions editorial-wise and yeah, just kind of am present generally. Just kind of around, I’m just hanging out.

IRVIN: Yeah. She’s here for support.

GOMEZ: She’s here for the vibes.

STEVENS: Yeah, I am here. I’m like, kind of like I can be a little personal therapist, I can be here to just, if anyone has any like gossip, they can bring it to me.

GOMEZ: Um, will it go in the newsletter?

IRVIN: If she tells me about it.

STEVENS: I usually kind of try and keep that close because I need to maintain respect in the office. And, um, yeah, it’s not Maia’s job, it’s my job to collect all the hot gossip.

IRVIN: Yeah. Yes.

STEVENS: So it’s not, it’s gonna stay close unless, um, unless, you know, I just like, it’s too juicy to like keep close. So, yeah. That’s me.

GOMEZ: Exciting. Thank you guys so much. Um, so. In staying on topic, uh, what exactly, what are we looking forward to this semester, Maia?

IRVIN: Tea. All the tea. Um, honestly, what I look forward to, my goal every semester, every publishing cycle that I have been a part of is to, um, Do we swear on this or no?

GOMEZ: Preferably not.

IRVIN: Okay. Like just don’t eff up. Yeah. . . Sorry. I swear a lot so I’m like really trying to check myself right now.

GOMEZ: You’re perfectly fine. I don’t think we’re supposed to, but you’re the boss, so.

IRVIN: That’s true.

GOMEZ: I think you’re allowed the one F-bomb?

STEVENS: Do you wanna use it now or do you wanna hold off?

IRVIN: It’s fine. It’s fine. It’s fine. It’s fine. Um, no. Every semester I’m, or literally every day I wake up and am like, okay, just like, don’t eff up anything cuz this institution has been here for like 100 years. So like, don’t be the one that messes it up.

GOMEZ: Yeah. It’d be awkward if it died at exactly 100.

IRVIN: Yeah. Um, but, um, that, I guess that’s more so like my personal goal, I guess like, or institutional goal, or like what we look forward to, I feel like it’s probably like the same every semester. You know, just like in general. Obviously I’m not gonna talk about like specific stories that we’re working on right now cause that would be like confidential stuff to talk about. But, um, I don’t know. Exposing things that should be exposed. You know, educating people on things they should be educated on. Pointing out really like cool things, really cool people doing cool things and just like continuing to be, you know, a prime source of news and information for the U of M like community.

GOMEZ: Yeah. You’ve been, um, you’ve been the editor-in-chief for the Daily. You okay?

IRVIN: I’m great.

GOMEZ: Uh, you’ve been the editor-in-chief for the Daily since last June. Um, what have you noticed, like going on in the Daily? What do you hope that you. I’m trying to phrase this question right, without sounding mean. Where do you think the Daily is slacking and where do you believe it could be?

IRVIN: I mean, I think, uh, like I was talking about earlier, I think we’re still in that kind of like a transitional phase, like trying to figure out like where we are at this point. Because we were like such a big institution of like a traditional newsroom, like printing a daily paper for so long and even like in, I don’t remember what year, like 2015 or something when they transitioned to like printing twice a week instead of every day. We were like such a traditional newsroom for so long, but like that model just is not working anymore and it hasn’t for years. And so like, the like pandemic really kicked off the Daily’s transition to a more digital space, to a fully digital and like social space. And, um, I mean, I think that, I mean, I think that’s gonna be the future of it, especially given our audience. Like I don’t, everyone that I know gets their news off of their phone.

So like that’s how, that’s what we should be doing. But since we’re still like in that phase of transition, there is definitely still work to be done to figure out how we are going to fully engage our audience digitally and like through social media, like building up those platforms. Building up the Daily’s brand again, cause it used to be like a really big thing and then COVID happened and no one knew anything that was going on ever. Like I talked to so many people in the past, like couple of years about the Daily that go to the U of M and they’re like, “What the hell are?” What are you talking about?”

GOMEZ: It’s fine. You’re, you’re quoting someone, you’re quoting someone, it’s fine.

STEVENS: These are direct quotes.

IRVIN: Um, they’re, no, they’re like, “What are you talking about?” Like, “We have a student paper?” “That’s what it’s called?” I think just like building up the brand in that space is like the next era of the Daily. And I, I mean, I don’t think that that’s going to be fully accomplished during like my time here, but um, I think that’s where we need like the most improvement on. And I mean, the podcast is definitely a big part of that, so thanks Alberto.

GOMEZ: Thank you. Um, so to both of you then, well, what do you think that is, that next step? What do you think is that next transition to improving and, uh, to improving our reach.

STEVENS: Well, I think we talked a little bit about like using like TikTok, and I think that’d be kind of fun. I really wanna, like someone’s gotta take that on though, like as their baby, I know if it’s really gonna be successful, and I don’t think any of us are like, have been super like, excited or willing to do that.

GOMEZ: Wait, but were you an editor? Uh, last, last semester? Like last academic year you weren’t –

IRVIN: No, no, I went from a reporter to EIC.

GOMEZ: Okay. Popoff.

IRVIN: But I, I was in a managing editor role in like a different, like outside of the Daily in something else. So I had some experience editing, but not specifically with the Daily.

GOMEZ: What was that exactly? Can I ask?

IRVIN: Yeah. So, um, it’s hard to explain, but at that point when I was in like an editing role, it was for the College of Liberal Arts Office for Institutional Advancement, which is basically like a lot of like alumni relations, PR kind of marketing stuff. So, um, when I started working for them as like a freshman, I would write like PR articles, feature articles for different CLA departments.

Um, and then, uh, I transitioned into, I became a managing editor, um, in that role. But then when I got the editor-in-chief job here, I had to quit that. Because like, conflicts of interest.

GOMEZ: Yeah. Yeah. That’s more than fair.

STEVENS: That’ll happen. Yeah.

GOMEZ: What? What did you say? We didn’t catch that.

STEVENS: No. I like mumbling and it’s like really hard to do that when you’re supposed to be on a podcast.

GOMEZ: Well, I mean, you just get a little closer to the mic.

Like, can you just like? Yeah. Like, oh my gosh, is this ASMR? We’re not gonna do ASMR, I’m sorry. Not gonna do that. God.

IRVIN: Crack your fingers into the microphone.

GOMEZ: Uh, ASMR warning. Is this, does that do anything? I don’t get that.

STEVENS: We’re gonna have to find out.

GOMEZ: I really don’t get that.

IRVIN: Do you know what ASMR is?

GOMEZ: Uh, Auditory? Sensory? Michelin?

IRVIN: Michelin? Like Michelin star?

GOMEZ: I don’t know.

IRVIN: I don’t know what it stands for either.

GOMEZ: But weirdly enough I don’t like it when like those sounds are going in.

IRVIN: Oh, like you don’t like ASMR?

GOMEZ: For someone who works in audio, I am very particular on what goes in my ears.

IRVIN: Right? Like someone could be like using your voice as like ASMR to fall asleep. Like, have you ever thought about that?

GOMEZ: You know what?

STEVENS: Oh, huh.

GOMEZ: I’m very honored by that.

STEVENS: You have a really good voice to fall asleep too.

IRVIN: Yeah. It’s like, deep, soothing.

GOMEZ: Oh, thank you. That does make me feel weird now that I’ve thought about it. Thanks.

IRVIN: You’re welcome. I really, one of my favorite pastimes is like purposefully making people feel awkward in conversations.

GOMEZ: Oh, you’re a pro at it basically.

STEVENS: It’s a hobby.

IRVIN: Yeah, it’s a hobby.

GOMEZ: God. Um, so we’ve filled up the 30 minutes already.

IRVIN: Oh – Dang.

STEVENS: Wow. Maia really can’t just keep them in. I love it.

IRVIN: I’m so bad at censoring myself. I would like swear in front of my high school teachers by accident.

STEVENS: I would, I would do that in front of my like nanny kids on accident. Yeah.

IRVIN: I swear in front of children all the time. I was like at work and I like dropped something. I was like – There’s like a little girl standing, right there.

STEVENS: Another direct quote.

IRVIN: This little girl was standing right next to me and I go, I look at her and I was like, I mean, “shoot.” She walked away. I was like, “dang it.”

GOMEZ: Yeah. I used to work with kids at the YMCA, and I’m not gonna quote exactly what he said, but it was something along the lines of directed towards me, like, “You need to go foot yourself.” And like this kid’s 6. Wow. He was six.

IRVIN: My little brother started swearing when he was like 6, probably because of me and my older brother. But the first time I remember is like my older brother took his Nerf gun away from him and he looked at him and he was like, “you…”

GOMEZ: Maia.

STEVENS: That was another. Put the little E with the box around it next to this episode.

GOMEZ: We’re not allowed to swear that much. I thought you would do like one or two.

IRVIN: I could have sworn like 10 times in every sentence. So this is really good for me.

STEVENS: Literally a sailor. I love it.

GOMEZ: In other news, uh, Maia’s no longer allowed on the podcast.

STEVENS: She’s been banned.

IRVIN: You can edit that out.

GOMEZ: My girlfriend’s grandparents listen to this show.

IRVIN: No, I’m so sorry. What are their names?

GOMEZ: No.

IRVIN: I’m just gonna apologize.

GOMEZ: It’s CENSORED.

IRVIN: CENSORED. I’m so sorry, CENSORED.

GOMEZ: Oh god. Olivia, any final remarks you’d like to give?

STEVENS: I’m just glad that we’ve all gotten to know each other a little bit better over this last half hour. I think we’ve all learned some interesting insights. We all, we know how many children me and Maia are gonna have, and, um, unfortunately we can’t find that about Alberto. Like, you should have been born a woman. What can we say?

GOMEZ: Every day. I’m jealous

IRVIN: You could do it if you’re like in a really secure relationship. If you could do it on whoever you’re with, I guess. I don’t know.

GOMEZ: Dude. I really don’t want kids.

IRVIN: Well, then don’t do it. Manifest.

GOMEZ: No, I’m not opening that box.

STEVENS: Yeah, that’s totally fair.

GOMEZ: Yeah. Um, Maia, any closing remarks? Anything, any zingers from the crowd?

STEVENS: Any offensive remarks?

GOMEZ: Please. No.

STEVENS: Just keep them in.

IRVIN: No, no, no, no. I, um, yeah, I don’t know. This has been fun. I’ve never been on the podcast before, so I’m like, I’m not used to people like hearing my voice. But, um, I don’t know. I think it’s cool. I’m glad Olivia decided to, um, show up.

STEVENS: Also fun fact, this is the first podcast that I’m gonna be publishing for the Daily, cause that’s also my job.

IRVIN: Oh my gosh.

GOMEZ: Congratulations, narcissist.

STEVENS: Oh my gosh. We’re just coming at each other tonight. I love it. That’s what happens when you’re doing this, like 8 p.m. on a Thursday, so.

GOMEZ: We’re all sleepy. Oh yeah.

STEVENS: We’re, we’re kind of over with the week.

GOMEZ: I’m gonna go to bed, and I’m not gonna look at this tonight.

IRVIN: That’s okay. But, um, yeah.

GOMEZ: Thank you everyone so much for sitting down with us. Uh, we’ll see you guys in two weeks when Stella has her first episode of the season. Um, if you guys like this kind of content, make sure to email us. Email us at podcasting@mndaily.org? Dot com?

IRVIN: Dot com. Yeah.

GOMEZ: Dot com. My bad. Um, but, my name is Alberto Gomez.

STEVENS: Um, I’m Olivia Stevens.

IRVIN: I’m Maia Irvin.

GOMEZ: And this has been, uh, In The Know. Have a wonderful night. Make good choices.

This episode was edited by Abbey Machtig, Hana Ikramuddin and Alberto Gomez.

INTRO MUSIC

ALBERTO GOMEZ: Hi, everyone. My name is Alberto Gomez and you’re listening to In The Know, a podcast by the Minnesota Daily. Together, we’ll be exploring the University of Minnesota’s students and communities with each episode.

Susana de Leon has danced for about 30 years and 22 years ago, she founded the Minneapolis-based Nahuatl/Aztec-inspired dance group Kalpulli KetzalCoatlicue. On July 22nd, the Kalpulli was given the Aquatennial Award of Excellence for their parade performance during the Minneapolis Aquatennial.

According to de Leon, the dances the Kalpulli perform utilize naturally made instruments and regalia, inspired from traditional wear.

According to de Leon, that maraca-like sound comes from ankle-worn leggings wrapped in shells. Both the shells and leggings are called ayoyotes. And the thundering booms originate from a special Indigenous-Mexican drum called a huehuetl. During performances, one or two drummers beat their huehuetl as dancers dressed in traditional regalia perform around the drummers. Along with the regalia, dancers might also wear headdresses, carry shields, and more.

But the Kalpulli is more than just a dance group. The Kalpulli’s dances celebrate life, aim to heal, and share the still alive indigenous traditions of central Mexico. According to de Leon, the word kalpulli desirives from the Aztec word for community. The word KetzalCoatlicue meanwhile means “Precious Mother Earth.” Traditionally a kalpulli is made up of multiple families, who then make up a barrio.

SUSANA DE LEON: And then the barrio makes up this entity that works in the political and social life of the community.

GOMEZ: De Leon states that, though she founded Kalpulli KetzalCoatlicue in Minneapolis, it does not belong to her.

DE LEON: And so it doesn’t belong to me. It doesn’t belong to the captains. It belongs to the community that sustains us.

GOMEZ: The Kalpulli operates out of El Colegio, a South Minneapolis public charter school aimed at supporting and uplifting Latine cultures and communities. The Kalpulli itself has dancers as young as a few years old to beyond their fifties. The dancers come from across the Americas, as close as Minneapolis to as far as from Ecuador.

The Kalpulli does not dance to compete, outside of friendly motivations. But instead, the Kalpulli dedicates itself to community support.

DE LEON: I was dancing with two of the dancers and I started looking at them and smiling with my eyes. And they all came in the center and we started competing, kicking higher and so we do compete, but in a very friendly manner. Just mischievous, I guess. And it gives you a lot of energy and it’s fun and it puts a smile on your face and you know that everyone is smiling and you can see their faces. At the end we are all like, you did it, you did it. Like, I can’t believe you did it.

GOMEZ: De Leon encourages the Kalpulli to serve local communities to bring about healing and love for Indigenous-Latine culture. Through dance, the Kalpulli encourages cultural acknowledgement and support.

But beyond their performances de Leon explains the Kalpulli does more than dance. According to de Leon, the Kalpulli wants to uplift its dancers and community members first and foremost. They accomplish this by opening their doors to anyone interested in learning more about Indigenous-Latine culture and hosting multiple workshops for the Twin Cities community.

DE LEON: And so the more we grow in with this youth component, the stronger our community gets the, you know, healthier it gets.

GOMEZ: Though everything the Kalpulli does is open for anyone to participate with, de Leon puts most focus on supporting Latine communities, especially “lost” American children who want to find a connection to their ancestry and culture.

DE LEON: You know how a lot of, uh, us sort of like question how we went from indigenous to whatever is this that we’re labeled now and whatever label people wanna put on us. And then we know, we know that we have all of this indigeneity and all of this, uh, deep rooted culture in us.

GOMEZ: In his book “American Indian Holocaust and Survival,” American anthropologist Russell Thornton estimated that around 7,000,000 indigenous people lived in the Western Hemisphere prior to the arrival of Europeans in the Americas in 1492. Though Thornton concedes that estimate could be much lower or much higher what remains consistent is that between 90-95% of all indigenous peoples in the Americas perished following the arrival of Spanish conquistadores.

Though centuries have passed since the near total extermination of Indigenous Americans, de Leon states that many Latine folk still carry that pain in their hearts, but the Kalpulli aims to heal the hurt, to share Indigenous-Latine pride to the Twin Cities.

DE LEON: And suddenly you have this space where you are celebrated, your culture, you feel a connection. And suddenly it doesn’t matter that there is no budget for Mi Gente. It doesn’t matter that the University doesn’t wanna change the name of the Union and they continue to have all these, you know, small injuries every single day towards you. Because at that moment, you’re just there and you’re experiencing a very ancient culture that’s relevant and that’s contemporary and, and you just feel the moment. And are carried away in that smell of the copal, the drums and the dancing. And the dancing is always so strong that it just makes you wanna dance.

GOMEZ: Kalpulli KetzalCoatlicue will perform in front of the Northrop Auditorium on September 7 as part of the ongoing series “Amplifying Solidarity.”

The Amplifying Solidarity series began in the summer of 2020 as an artistic response to anti-racism. Kristen Brogdon, the Northrop Auditorium’s director of programming, helps to organize the series

KRISTEN BROGDON: Part of that response was committing to showcasing the work of Black and BIPOC artists.

GOMEZ: By working with local BIPOC artists and the Multicultural Student Engagement department at the University of Minnesota, Northrop has tried to show support for minority groups by boosting on-campus representation.

By creating a platform for culturally diverse artists with the Amplifying Solidarity series, Brogdon hopes that anyone passing by the Northrop’s outdoor stage will experience a sound or art that they may not have otherwise known.

BROGDON: And then part of it is also to showcase the fact that there are black and brown artists, women, and queer artists who are working across all genres. It’s not, it’s not a hip hop series. It’s not just a jazz series, but we have folk music. We have blues and Americana in addition to, to all of these other forms.

GOMEZ: According to Brogdon, not only will the performances of groups like the Kalpulli provide a learning experience for non-latine peoples, but it will provide an opportunity for Latine students to see representation on campus.

According to the National Center for Education Statistics, Hispanic students made up approximately 5% of the student population in 2020. Although, Hispanic does not automatically mean Latine or Indigenous, leaving the number of Indigenous-Latine students unknown. The Center for Education Statistics does report a less than 1% student population for Indigenous peoples.

Kalpulli KetzalCoatlicue’s performance does more than represent Hispanic or Mexican culture. It provides a platform for Indigenous-Latine culture, a culture that is frequently relegated to nothing more than a footnote.

Dr. Gabriela Spears-Rico is an assistant professor in both the Chicano-Latino Studies and American Indian Studies departments. A trained cultural anthropologist, her expertise lies in Central Mexico, in particular the state of Michoacan.

She explains the distinction between Mexican representation and indigenous representations.

GABRIELA SPEARS-RICO: It’s different than indigenous representation and because of the marginalization of indigenous folks in Latin America and the stereotypes that are attached to indigeneity that doesn’t always get represented accurately. Indigenous characters and indigeneity continues to be romanticized or becomes a marginal footnote or reference rather than central and humanized, which is what I would like to see.

GOMEZ: Spears-Rico makes reference to the 2017 Pixar film Coco, identifying that though it was a step in the right direction for Mexican representation, the film failed to properly showcase and honor Indigenous-Latine peoples and cultures.

SPEARS-RICO: Indigenous people literally became a footnote at the end of Coco when all the credits rolled it said on there “to learn more about the Day of The Dead,” go to your local library or look up the indigenous people of Mexico and so that sort of like paints indigenous people as contributors to the culture, but not as the stewards of the culture or the humans that are today, contemporary human beings that are still that are still preserving these cultural traditions and carrying them on.

GOMEZ: By putting Indigenous cultures and peoples at the bottom of the page, the influence that indigenous cultures have today become erased from active consciousness. According to the book Representation: Cultural Representations and Signifying Practices by cultural theorist Stuart Hall, diverse and accurate representation provides audiences with the awareness of cultures. According to Hall, audiences look to the arts to understand what cultures are like and some of the inner workings of a culture. Hall explains that the way a culture is represented in art reflects a society’s stigma of a culture.

Spears-Rico explains that by leaving indigenous peoples to the end of the credits and not giving noticeable credit to their influences, indigenous cultures remain elusive to the general public.

The Kalpulli functions to bring to public attention practiced dances of pre-columbian cultures outside of stereotypes.

But beyond breaking stereotypes and bringing cultural awareness, the Kalpulli uplifts the dancers themselves. Moemma Diaz is a thirteen-year old second generation immigrant, meaning her parents migrated to the United States and she was born here.

Diaz joined the Kalpulli three years ago, but she has been dancing for ten years. Despite being raised in a Mexican household, she didn’t find a lot of Latine representation in her younger childhood. But the Kalpulli creates an opportunity for young people like Diaz to find a reliable support system that understands her culture.

MOEMMA DIAZ: It matters cuz most kids don’t have that. Like. I know when I was growing up, I didn’t have people around me who supported me. Um, so I know people like kids and girls are struggling to like fit in into society and have people who support them and who care about them. So I feel like this is just like, oh, I have friends, you know, I have people who are just like me and that who are gonna support me.

GOMEZ: According to de Leon, a kalpulli has a duty to its community. To de Leon, Kalpulli KetzalCoatlicue has a duty to revitalize and support those needing healing. And though centuries of culture has been stripped away from so many Indigenous peoples, de Leon wants to share the very much alive culture that Indigenous Latin-Americans have rooted somewhere inside them.

DE LEON: And when we see, I think, Aztec dance, especially at the university, we have a very deep connection to the cosmos, to our ancestral memories, to our memories that are awakened at that moment because we carry them in our DNA. They’re there, just as the trauma is there, so is the joy, and the music and the drum, and it connects to our hearts. And that makes you feel strong in this place where so many times you don’t belong.

GOMEZ: The Amplifying Solidarity series costs nothing to attend and takes place at the outdoor stage in front of Northrop Auditorium. Upcoming performances occur between August 24 and September 21. Kalpulli KetzalCoatlicue will perform on the outdoor Northrop stage on September 7th at noon. Susana de Leon and I both look forward to meeting you there.

The Daily would like to thank all of our listeners for tuning in to the final episode of the summer season. We hope you return to listen to new stories from new reporters this coming fall. Don’t forget to like and rate In The Know wherever you enjoy your podcasts. My name is Alberto Gomez and this has been In The Know.

ALBERTO GOMEZ: Hi everyone, my name is Alberto Gomez and this… is a special episode of In The Know. Traditionally, we focus on stories relating to the University and communities within the immediate area, but today, we at In The Know wanted to create something a little different. Today, we will be departing from typical hard news, and instead, I want to express my opinion on the role that media has in the internet age and how it may be falling short in serving audiences.

Before going too far into this op-ed, let me properly introduce myself. As stated, my name is Alberto and I will enter my fourth year at the University of Minnesota this fall. I pursue a degree in journalism and cultural studies and comparative literature. I am a third generation immigrant, with a father and grandparents from Mexico. My family originally raised me in Waukegan, Illinois before moving to a predominately white suburb of Kenosha, Wisconsin.

I say these things for one reason. I hope to ensure that my audience understands my inherent biases that come with my background. These are things that no journalist can ever separate themselves from. I, much like any journalist, hold personal values derived from my identities and experiences and this does affect my reporting. I hope that audiences might gleem how my background may impact my reporting and hold me to a higher standard.

To me, a journalist’s duty is to the community that they serve. In this industry we call that philosophy “Communitarianism.” This philosophy puts the values and needs of the society over the individual. In other words, my own desires or that of friends come second to the needs of the community. Listeners can hear this type of philosophy at work in episodes 95 and 97, during sections explaining community desires rather than giving platform to a sole person or representative of the community. The goals of these pieces were to focus on what the people needed and wanted in the I-95 areas respectively.

In these pieces, reporter Sean Ericson and I chose to put more emphasis on community members rather than the desires and plans of government or university officials. By drawing a line between a person and the community’s experiences, we at In The Know attempt to reflect an overall problem rather than presenting things as an isolated incident with no recourse.

I recently spoke with Ruth DeFoster, a professor of journalism at the University of Minnesota. Much of her research has covered mass shootings and acts of terrorism. While comparing mass shooting coverage between Finland and the United States, she pointed out two things that she believes to be a major flaw in American media and journalism.

After a 2008 university shooting in Kauhajoki, Finland, DeFoster called attention that Finnish media outlets tried to keep the shooter’s direct actions and identity to a minimum usage, so as to prevent the shooter from gaining notoriety and risking copycats.

RUTH DEFOSTER: That was like an implicit rule in all of the newsroom that they wouldn’t use the, the shooter’s name. I don’t think you’d ever see that in the U.S. I think that’s considered highly newsworthy.

GOMEZ: The Finnish Broadcasting Company’s report on the shooting focused less on the actions of the shooter but instead on what police and government officials will be doing in response to the shooting. Conversely, the U.S. based New York Times’ report on the same incident instead focused on details of the shooting itself before moving onto public reactions.

DEFOSTER: It was all about framing, this sense of like communalism, like how are we as Fins or Suomi, which is what it is in Finland, how are we going to recover from this? How are we going to like come together as a nation and heal? How will this affect the way that the rest of Europe and the world sees us? And I just didn’t see any of that real communal perspective here in the U.S.

GOMEZ: In the United States, we view news as entertainment for current events. There is a reason why one of the most watched programs in the nation is Tucker Carlson Tonight, averaging about 3.5 million viewers as of this June, according to AdWeek. Even this is written with the intent to entertain while informing, hence the usual sound effects in the background to keep you, the listener, engaged or in the moment.

This type of coverage difference lies at the center of why In The Know tends to focus stories on community actions and persons, rather than a single issue or occurrence. I believe that focusing on stories of healing and experiences creates a community focused narrative while avoiding sensationalization.

But, I consume news as entertainment too. I listen to podcasts and news pundits or commentators everyday. But the problem is that news as entertainment tries to entertain first. Going back to the Tucker Carlson Tonight example, his comments are portrayed as news, not commentary. After all, he appears on the Fox News channel. Of course, the same applies to left-leaning commentary, such as Last Week Tonight with John Oliver. Due to their entertaining nature these programs grab audiences attention more easily than something like print journalism or even reports on The Minnesota Daily website. These shows tend to use provocative language or propose an agenda while commenting on current events. This is not unbiased and fair journalism.

I will not comment on how I perceive these two shows, it’s not relevant here. What’s more important is acknowledging that these shows present themselves as news sources, despite neither of them being explicit journalism, just commentary according to the U.S. District Judge Mary Kay Vyskocil. But these shows are easily consumed and spread. They’re successful at disseminating information, yes, but it is not unbiased journalism. If anything, they are more akin to an op-ed.

Noor Adwan works as the opinion’s desk editor at the MN Daily. She is a fourth year Palestinian-American journalism student. In April of 2021, Adwan submitted her first op-ed piece to the Minnesota Daily, detailing her arrest during a protest in Brooklyn Center. Since then, Adwan has continued her work as a columnist and opinion writer for the Daily.

NOOR ADWAN: I was really more drawn to the personality that you can put into an op-ed. And I feel like I’ve been someone who’s been doing a lot of like advocacy work throughout my life. So op-eds just kind of felt like a more natural decision for me.

GOMEZ: The Daily puts a restriction on opinion writers like Adwan, she cannot transfer to a hard news desk nor cover hard news stories because of her pre-expressed opinion writings. Ergo, everything she writes comes from her own perspectives and interpretations of facts and news, much like a talk show host putting their own “spin” on a topic. With this platform she puts effort into advocacy work, a matter that she doesn’t believe hard news can achieve as well as op-eds.

ADWAN: You can definitely accomplish advocacy through hard news. But I feel like it’s more direct with op-eds. You can directly tell people, this is what I think. Um, you don’t have to agree, but this is what I think, this is my take. So while it is possible to accomplish advocacy through hard news, I think that soft news, the soft news approach, the op-eds approach is a lot more direct.

GOMEZ: There is an importance to Adwan’s separation from hard news. The Daily does not want to risk the muddying or misinterpretation of opinions for news. So rather than feigning an objective perspective, Adwan advocates for total transparency in her writing.

ADWAN: So I think that transparency coupled with ethical, responsible journalism and being very transparent about your practices saying, “Hey, I am not an objective source.” No one is, but, but I thoroughly research, you know, everything that I write, I fact check everything. This is a really, you know, an arduous process, making sure that what I’m saying is while it’s not, you know, objective is useful information to have,

GOMEZ: To Adwan, one of the most important aspects of disseminating information is to remain earnest. When Adwan includes her perspectives and experiences in her pieces, she leaves audiences to agree or disagree with her ideas. DeFoster, though, states that journalists should remain as objective and fair as possible in their reporting. Though commentary has risen in popularity, journalists still have a duty to present good and well researched information without attempting to skew audiences.

Currently, DeFoster is working on a book that covers perceptions of terrorism. While conducting her research, she surveyed Gen Z adults to get an idea of where young people get their news.

DEFOSTER: Close to a hundred percent. It was like 98% said “social media.” We think that we’re getting our news from a much more, you know, um, diverse landscape of, of sources, but in reality, especially young people, they’re really just getting it from social media. Like, that’s where they’re encountering new information.

GOMEZ: But, there’s a problem with that. Audiences want to know as much information as possible with the least amount of effort put forward. This means less digging for good information and more clicking on whatever pops up on a user’s feed.

Open Democracy wrote in 2018 that Cambridge Analytica, a data gathering company under the supervision of former White House Chief Strategist Steve Bannon, “obtained data collected from Facebook” to “train its microtargeting algorithms to nudge scores of already-angry voters towards electing Donald Trump and leaving the European Union.” The goal of these algorithms was to keep people clicking on easily accessible and eye-catching information.

DEFOSTER: But that’s where we are! And that’s how TikTok works. That’s how Instagram works. That’s how Twitter works. The goal is to keep you clicking and what keeps people clicking the most? What, what really engages people? It doesn’t make them happy, but it’s outrage.

GOMEZ: According to Open Democracy, social media platforms try to provide information that a user will engage with, that would mean information that aligns with a user’s world views and perceptions. For example, a lover of content like Tucker Carlson will likely not engage nor watch content similar to that of CNN’s Anderson Cooper, so social media algorithms will not bring it up on a user’s feed. This creates an echo chamber effect, where users continue to engage with content that confirms preconceived notions.

This isn’t that different from receiving news on talk shows, news commentary, or casual podcasts. Curated content like these shows aim to engage and entertain first, the legitimacy of information is secondary. Some shows will of course provide more honest information, but it still remains entertainment first.

And now we come to the conundrum that journalists face. How do we get audiences to listen? Audiences don’t engage with genuine news content in the same way they may engage with Instagram or Facebook infographics or Fox News. What we write is not nearly as flashy and fun.

Honestly, the news is boring. That’s coming from someone who reads news articles for about an hour everyday. I am paid to do that and I still get bored. But my duty as a journalist asks me to remain informed and disseminate information for listeners.

I love staying informed, I enjoy news media, I have fun researching information and telling stories to people. But I have dyslexia making reading difficult. I, too, get bored of constantly reading article after article. So, what can journalists do for people in a similar boat as me?

I believe that news media should attempt to entertain and reach audiences in the middle of fun and newsworthy. Journalists need to make content that people want to engage with while still making it accessible.

I don’t think that it is enough to consume news from pundits or commentators, and I don’t think all news media must adopt that style of dissemination to remain relevant. Yes, some information is better than total obliviousness,but there comes the risk of consuming extremely skewed information if someone only listens to news commentary. Televised programs focus on keeping watchers watching, their profit comes from advertising afterall.

Journalists like myself worry that good information doesn’t reach the vast audiences that it needs to. Take for example the New York Times, one of the most read newspapers in the United States. According to a 2021 annual report, the Times has seen a slow and steady print circulation decline.

And yet, the Times hasn’t folded. I’ll admit, the previous paragraph was a partial lie. The Times does reach audiences, as a matter of fact. Online, the Times reaches 70 million unique readers every month, according to the Times’ annual report.

But the Times is an exception, not the rule. Forbes reports that 2,000 of 3,143 U.S counties do not have a daily newspaper, and 200 of those counties lack a weekly local newspaper.

As print media has begun to decline in popularity, journalism needs to adapt and find alternative ways of reaching audiences. The Times has chosen to put more efforts in publishing easy to engage content, things like podcasts and shareable Instagram infographics. While I don’t believe infographics can replace thorough journalism, at the very least it is accessible information.

As information migrates more and more to an online medium, journalism can’t sustain itself on its traditional formats. News content needs to evolve in the present moment, it must find a way to entertain and keep audiences engaged.

MPR’s News With Angela Davis is an excellent example of mixing talk show energy with newsworthy dissemination. Davis keeps her perspective and opinions to a minimum while keeping her interpretations to nothing more than explanatory. Her personality still shines through, much like a podcast episode from the likes of Joe Rogan, but she does so by not explicitly trying to interpret or guide for her audience.

When DeFoster moved to an online format to teach her classes at the University of Minnesota, she found it difficult to get students to participate in class and watch pre-recorded lectures. Unsure of what to do, DeFoster turned to her teenage son.

DEFOSTER: And he’s “like, mom, you gotta make it like YouTube. You have to, like, you gotta tell ’em a story you gotta,” and that’s what I did. And it worked. Honestly. Where I’d be in my pop culture class. I’m like, okay, I’m gonna tell you the story of Millie Vanilli and how they blew up and how they failed. And then we’re gonna get into the content. And, and it would like, you know, emulating that kind of delivery. That’s more fun. And it worked really well. I got, I got close to a hundred percent of the students watching the whole lecture.

GOMEZ: But I do worry about the intersection of entertainment and news. It might get difficult for audiences to differentiate between what’s news and what’s entertainment. Going back to the John Oliver and Tucker Carlson examples, legally both of these shows distinguish themselves as entertainment talk shows, while still covering news content. While Oliver does concede and admit to personal biases and opinions, not every content creator will do that. Nor will every reader or audience member be able to automatically distinguish between news and opinionated content. There was a reason why this episode opened very distinctly with me explaining my background and that what you are listening to is an opinion. Like Adwan explained, journalism must present itself in full transparency.

While I believe that many journalists attempt to be honest, that does not mean that every article written is not without flaw. Even this podcast has been notified of reporting errors in the past.

The duty of a journalist is to hold our institutions accountable, but who will hold us accountable? While I know it isn’t flashy, it’s up to our audiences just as much as ourselves. When we embed links in our articles, double check, inquire further into the information you receive. Learn a little background on the writer and the platforms that they write for. If you can, try to learn their sponsors to determine what possible conflicts of interests they might have. Make sure that the information they give you is being honest, earnest, fair, and balanced.

I know most listeners won’t do that, but it’s the thought that counts. Much like a journalist spends hours gathering info, audiences need to inquire too.

That doesn’t mean grow paranoid and check for moles in the media, it just means to know who speaks and what expertise a journalist has. If a journalist has a background in, say, mass shooting coverage or violent crime coverage like DeFoster, odds are they know what they are talking about to an extent. If a journalist is a Palestinian or Mexican American individual, no doubt they will share some sympathy or personal thoughts on related topics. But, this does not and should not instantly discredit or credit them. Generally speaking, most journalists want to share information earnestly; Our job is to seek the truth and report it. That’s one of our key pillars in our Code of Ethics, as described by the Society of Professional Journalists: to seek the truth and report it.

There isn’t anything wrong with listening to news pundits or commentators, but it’s important to rationalize and understand that they speak for themselves and for their opinions. In Harper Lee’s To Kill A Mockingbird, Atticus Finch tells his daughter Scout to remove the adjectives and you’ll get the facts. While the world isn’t that simple, that’s a place to start.

The Daily would like to thank all of our listeners for tuning in to this special episode. We’ll see you next time. And don’t forget to like and rate In The Know wherever you enjoy your podcasts. My name is Alberto Gomez and this is In The Know.

INTRO MUSIC

ALBERTO GOMEZ: Hi, everyone. My name is Alberto Gomez and you’re listening to In The Know, a podcast by the Minnesota Daily. Together, we’ll be exploring the University of Minnesota’s students and communities with each episode.

On Thursday June 23, 13 high school students from across Minnesota gathered in the Weisman Art Museum to join the now 24 year-old WAM Teen Architecture Workshop. Over the course of five weeks, these students will learn the fundamentals of architectural planning, hand modeling, architecture as an art form, and career paths in architecture and design.

The workshop aims to serve as a fun introduction to a field that Jaimee Yung, the Director of Education at the Weisman, believes youth need more exposure to.

JAIMEE YUNG: We look to any students who, first of all, don’t have access to this type of programming maybe in their schools. So, a lot of schools don’t offer that there might not be enough budgeting to have classes like this.

GOMEZ: After a two year gap in programming, Yung is more than excited for the return of the Architecture Workshop. To Yung, the workshop serves as a way to serve local communities and provide a rare learning opportunity to youth.

YUNG: And so thinking about our role in the city, as far as architecture and then our connection to the university and the college of design, and thinking about what, how can we bridge the community with the university by utilizing our bright, shiny building.

GOMEZ: Through exposure to working professionals from around the Twin Cities and mentorship from U of M School of Design students, Yung hopes that high school students will find a niche that they can fit into.

YUNG: So we bring in consultants from different areas of architecture and design to talk with the students. So we might bring in an interior designer, a landscape, we’ll bring in a structural engineer, we’ll bring in a designer so they can kind of see that there’s not one path, that there’s many ways that they could be involved with architecture and design.

GOMEZ: Every Thursday for five weeks, groups of four to five high schoolers are led by a student-mentor from the U of M School of Design who has already progressed in multiple architectural design courses. With their mentor, the high school students explore campus, ask questions about their mentor’s college experiences, and are guided through multiple hands-on-activities.

Eight years ago, Angelo Davalos walked around the University as a mentee of the Weisman’s Teen Architecture Workshop; he now finds himself leading a group of students through multiple workshops and around the campus. Had COVID-19 not taken away two years of programming, this would have been Davalos’ fifth year as a mentor.

ANGELO DAVALOS: The nice thing about this camp is every year, the project changes and is something different, um, which I really enjoyed. And it is also led by people like myself, mentors or college students,who can really connect and try and teach things to these high school students that they have recently learned themselves.

GOMEZ: According to Davalos, not much has changed since he was a student mentee with the workshop. Prior to the pandemic, the workshop ran for five days over the course of a single week. But with the program now being spread out to one day a week for five weeks, Davalos and other mentors are more easily able to dedicate themselves to the program.

According to Davalos, by using School of Design students as mentors, the workshop creates an opportunity for college students to show mastery of their knowledge and act as a mentor for younger students considering college.

Davalos explains that he sees the Workshop as a pre-pre-architecture program, and he hopes that his efforts will leave his mentees with a leg up if they eventually find themselves in architecture school. But even then…

DAVALOS: One thing I’ll say about this program specifically is I learned more about architecture in this five day camp than I did probably in my first year of architecture school. It teaches you really direct and applicable knowledge.

GOMEZ: Every year, students are presented with a different type of project to plan out, build a scale model for, and present to professional architects from the Twin Cities. According to Yung, past projects have ranged from bridges, inventive stairwells, and campus cafes.

According to Sage Caballero, an educational assistant at the Weisman, this year students will be working on an event pop-up structure over the five weeks.

SAGE CABALLERO: So I’m thinking about the Wiseman and collaborating with other groups, a lot of times, you know, in the real world will have events or, um, art popup is kind of the best way to think of it, cause they’re all so different and can vary so much that happen outside of the museum. And so kind of thinking about what is the best way to, for the students in terms of architecture, how do we make it look like the Wiseman in the sense that it has our branding and our sort of quirky building that we have attached, um, without just kind of mimicking the building itself.

GOMEZ: Caballero explains that the project will task students with creating an easy to put up and transportable structure that harkens back to Frank Gehry’s design of the Weisman itself, while still maintaining its own identity.

Each day of the workshop is dedicated to different phases of the project. According to Yung, day one focused on introductions, team building, and the revelation of the five-week project.

The second workshop focuses on selecting a location for the students’ pop-up while also getting to explore the University alongside their mentor. Over the next three weeks, students are slowly introduced to different terminology, architecture practices, and real-world-professionals. According to Caballeros, the workshop functions as an introduction to the world of architecture and design. No prior knowledge of the field is required for students to join the workshop.

CABALLERO: And a lot of them don’t necessarily know the intricacies of what architecture is; there’s so many different types of it. And so letting them see what that is and letting them kind of dig in, most of them obviously have an interest in architecture, but this allows them to go into college, knowing a bit more and knowing kind of being able to see what paths they could go down.

GOMEZ: The Weisman Teen Architecture Workshop doesn’t come free or without some difficulties. Enrollment is open to any 10th-12th grade student for a $200 fee. But to make costs easier, the Weisman works with local architect firms to offer scholarship opportunities waiving a portion of the fee.

YUNG: We work with donors to get the funding for that, but really thinking about, again, it’s about the access and helping under-served students. So we don’t want the cost to be a barrier.

GOMEZ: Yung estimates that about half of all students request program scholarships. And year after year, the Weisman has tried to make the workshop more affordable.

YUNG: We’d like to get to a point in our funding model where we can provide it for free for all students, so that’s the goal.

GOMEZ: Pre-pandemic, the workshop would host anywhere between 30 to 45 high school students. With half the usual students this year, Yung believes that the smaller groups will allow for closer relationships amongst students and mentors, while still creating a fun energy.

YUNG: I love when the room gets really loud and messy, um, cuz the students are interacting and talking and sharing ideas and you see them, um, sort of arguing or, or having disagreements and then having to figure that out like this person has this idea, but this person has this idea and then they have to try to figure out like, how are we gonna make this work?

GOMEZ: After having worked closely with the Weisman Teen Architecture Workshop, Davalos hopes to not only see it thrive, but expand beyond just the 13 to 45 students who can make it to the Weisman. And already, Yung has begun playing with the idea of expanding the workshop students as young as middle school.

DAVALOS: I really think that this is a staple to be used in many other places cuz it really teaches these students so much in such a condensed amount of time. Teaching them, you know, collaboration, huge part of architecture, but even the, the process of design and, the technical aspects as well as the conceptual, portions. So that’s why I’ve kept coming back is it has meant so much to me that this program stays alive. It really helps these students to figure out what architecture is and if they truly are interested in it or not.

GOMEZ: The Daily would like to thank all of our listeners for tuning in. We’ll see you next time. And don’t forget to like and rate In The Know wherever you enjoy your podcasts. My name is Alberto Gomez and this is In The Know.